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The Earth Is Bleeding...

34K views 308 replies 58 participants last post by  salmonslug 
#1 ·
and no one can seem to stop it! Do you all feel as helpless as I do? I found these pictures to be amazing, but I have been avoiding them because it's so depressing. Can you imagine if there was a spill in the Puget Sound? I hope there are plenty of safeguards around here. This all makes me wanna cry.... What is going to happen to all the fishing down there? I'm pissed.

http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2010/05/disaster_unfolds_slowly_in_the.html

bawling:
 
#122 ·
Thanks, Mumbles. I hate the Democrap and the Repthuglican parties equally. Its always a conundrum for me come election time when it comes down to choosing the lesser of two evils.

Over the last decade, things haven't been going too well for whistleblowers:
http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/10/14/oil.whistleblower/index.html

Apparently, the former Secretary of the Interior, Dirk Kempthorne, claimed to be outraged by Bobby Maxwell's allegations and findings. but he didn't do anything about it.
His successor, the current Interior Secretary, Ken Salazar, also did nothing to fix the problem with the Mineral Management Service, until now that its too late. He should have known about this problem, and by last year at the latest, he should have cleaned up the corruption in the MMS. But he didn't do anything. So you see, it doesn't matter who's in charge of the public interest. They will be bought.
I'm going fishing before the oil works its way around to here.
 
#123 ·
I missed this. Can anyone tell me about what happened here? or, the rest of the story?

Murray Slams Republicans for Blocking Bill to Make Big Oil Pay to Clean up Spills

May 13, 2010
(Washington D.C.) – Today, U.S. Senator Patty Murray (D-WA) released the following statement after Republicans blocked the Big Oil Bailout Prevention from passing today. This bill, co-sponsored by Senator Murray, would make sure oil companies are held accountable for the economic costs resulting from spills.

“I am extremely disappointed that Senate Republicans once again put Big Oil profits over Washington state taxpayers,” said Senator Patty Murray. “Today, we had a chance to make sure Washington state taxpayers would never be left holding the bag for oil companies’ environmental and economic disasters, but Senate Republicans said no. This is a simple issue of fairness—if an oil company causes a spill, they should have to pay to clean it up.”

Currently, the responsible party in an oil spill must cover all costs related to clean up; however, there is a $75 million cap on its liability for economic damages, such as lost business revenues from fishing and tourism, natural resources damages or lost local tax revenues. The Big Oil Bailout Prevention legislative package would raise the liability cap from $75 million to $10 billion.

The legislative package is composed of two bills. One to increase the oil spill liability cap and the other is to reform the Oil Spill Liability Trust Fund.

S. 3305, The Big Oil Bailout Prevention Liability Act would:

Raise the liability cap for offshore oil well spills from $75 million to $10 billion.
S. 3306, The Big Oil Bailout Prevention Trust Fund Act would:
Eliminate the $1 billion per incident cap on claims against the Oil Spill Liability Trust Fund and allow community responders to access the fund for preparation and mitigation up front, rather than waiting for reimbursement later.
If damage claims exceed the amount in the Oil Spill Liability Trust Fund (currently $1.6 billion), then Treasury can temporarily refill the Fund and be repaid by the oil industry with interest once it is replenished.
Eliminate the $500 million cap on natural resources damages.
The Big Oil Bailout Prevention legislative package was introduced on the heels of the British Petroleum Gulf Coast oil spill disaster, and days after BP announced that their single-quarter profits doubled to $6 billion.
 
#126 ·
Sometimes i like to "think the unthinkable" just for a mental exercise. Suppose this wasn't an accident.

A BP official told the Horizon workers that "This is how its going to be done," despite their arguments to the contrary. A supervisor left the rig with other workers in charge shortly before it exploded. Supposed these two guys were paid off.

Who stands to gain?
 
#128 ·
Sometimes i like to "think the unthinkable" just for a mental exercise. Suppose this wasn't an accident.

A BP official told the Horizon workers that "This is how its going to be done," despite their arguments to the contrary. A supervisor left the rig with other workers in charge shortly before it exploded. Supposed these two guys were paid off.

Who stands to gain?
Maybe we'll have the answer if gas prices suddenly hit the $10 per gallon mark... I love conspiracy theories...
 
#138 ·
Clearly a Senator from Alaska would receive large donations from the oil industry, just as the Senators from LA and TX receive large contributions. Both Democrat and Republicans take contributions.

I did not look at this current bill, but the comments made by Sen. Murkowski was that this bill would unfairly burden small oil companies and create an advantage for the large companies. There seems to be some logic in that statement as the large companies can afford to pay huge fines whereas the smaller ones could be put out of business. I think the current limits on liabilities is too low for the large companies and something should be changed. But rushing a bill through Congress at this time won't solve the current mess, so why not take the time to get it right...not that Congress ever really does that.

The other comment I wanted to make it that there was discussion on a boycott of BP. Boycott can work in some situations, but oil is one of the most fungible products that exists, and a boycott would have little if any affect on BP, but would probably have a negative impact on the independent gas station operators.
 
#133 ·
Yeah, and the latest lie is that the leak is pumping 798,000 gallons per day into the Gulf. That is only 554 gallons per minute. I call bullshit! It's putting out more than that! I still say it is putting out 4-5 times that amount!
 
#134 ·
Anybody here heard of the Athabasca Oil Sands? Know whats going on in Alberta? try googling "Alberta Tar Sands" and read til you can't take it any more.

http://dirtyoilsands.org/files/CEI-TarSandsMeansHigherOilPrices.pdf

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athabasca_Oil_Sands

Now, suppose that BP successfully tapped into that HUGE deposit under the Gulf. Would that maybe keep the price of oil down enuff to make extracting oil from tar sands uneconomical? Perhaps derail some projects and scuttle billions in investment.

Or maybe the BP bonus structure was set up such that the guy who said "This is how it's going to be," was hoping that his bonus would be fatter if he used less costly methods and allowed no further delays? Hoping nothing would go wrong...

Yeah, I know i'd never make it as a sci-fi writer.
 
#135 ·
Or maybe the BP bonus structure was set up such that the guy who said "This is how it's going to be," was hoping that his bonus would be fatter if he used less costly methods and allowed no further delays? Hoping nothing would go wrong...
Jim-

BP was 6 or so weeks behind schedule on this project, and in a rush to get the rig to another location:
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=127206227

Last week Robert Kaluza, BP's head site rep, pleaded the 5th during testimony:
http://www.nola.com/news/gulf-oil-spill/index.ssf/2010/05/oil_spill_hearings_bp_man_on_d.html
 
#139 ·
To limit liability on big oil is a joke.

What other businesses have limited
liability from the US Government?

Drug companies?
Auto industry?
Insurance?
General Electric?
General Mills?
Dildo Manufacturers?

Just one folks....

Big Oil.

As we look at 3 more months or more of oil spewing into the Gulf
I want to puke. With such a risky well why weren't additional safeguards taken....

We all know that answer.

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Dave
 
#140 ·
Day 44 now. 31% of the Gulf of Mexico’s fishing area (US regulated) is now closed. Those fishermen, families and communities that their money support are struggling more now than ever.

BP and the US Government are no longer cozy and doing joint press releases. Has the administration realized that this is a bigger deal than BP wanted us all to believe from the beginning?

If we trust BP’s low end estimate of 10,000 barrels leaking a day we are now at 440,000 barrels, that is 18,480,000 gallons (nearly 18.5 million barrels). If we trust independent professionals that have no fiscal link to BP and their worst case scenario number of up to 200,000 barrels a day, that is 880,000 barrels or 369,600,000 (over 369 million gallons). Of course these two numbers are way apart; even splitting the difference puts this environmental catastrophe at 194 million gallons of oil spilled. (1 barrel = 42 US gallons)

There has been oil reported on the shores of barrier islands and land in Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama and unconfirmed reports of Texas. I guess Florida can expect to be next.

Has there been an economic impact? I dare anyone to attempt to convince those fishermen, families or communities there has be no noticeable economic impact. Hell, try convincing anyone with a pulse that is not in bed with BP.

Has there been environmental impact? Of course, the extent of which BP will pay to study for the next decade, or so they say. We won’t know for a while how bad the damage is or for how long it will linger. Some wounds heal faster than others.

Has there been an impact to the fisheries? With 31% closed, of course there has been. Have they begun to realize the extent of the actual impact on the various species in the gulf? No way, they can’t even stop the damn leak.

Day 44, still no end in site. Relief well drilling still underway, relief still more than 30 days from reality. The earth is still bleeding. What is next BP? How about from you Mother Nature? Hurricane anyone?
 
#151 ·
There has been oil reported on the shores of barrier islands and land in Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama and unconfirmed reports of Texas. I guess Florida can expect to be next.
Yeah, looks like it's going to rip right through the South fla flats and the keys. It'll probably toast the gulf shallows as well right when the waters warm enough for the bonefish to move out of it's path. This is going to suck!!! Looks like it's time to overpay for hawaii again this year. :beathead: did i mention this sucks?
 
#141 ·
If you all note:

The ad on this page "BP Spill -Blame Obama?" This is an ad from "Newsmax Magazine" and website that is unabashedly right-wing bias and for people that love Russ Limbaughs, etc. I don't think it should be on this site, particularly on this thread. It offends me. This is a BP screwup, period! I wish you would take it off Chris. Thank you.
 
#142 ·
If you all note:

The ad on this page "BP Spill -Blame Obama?" This is an ad from "Newsmax Magazine" and website that is unabashedly right-wing bias and for people that love Russ Limbaughs, etc. I don't think it should be on this site, particularly on this thread. It offends me. This is a BP screwup, period! I wish you would take it off Chris. Thank you.
That's right, no opinion that differs from your liberal ideology, "it's offensive" bawling: So we can have and support your left wing ideology, but not right wing dissenting viewpoints? :rofl: excellent idea comrade, President Wilson and Joseph Goebbels and many other progressive socialists would be proud of your "my view is correct regardless of the facts and all others need censored" viewpoint.

This is not a Bush problem. It was supervisors retained and intentionally not replaced by the Obama administration who approved the permit to drill, not the Bush administration. And to head off the inevitable whine, I dislike former President Bush's actions as president. The Kenyan has stated HE takes responsibility for it as he should considering that his employees approved the drilling which started more than a year after he took office in Feb 2010, 17 months after he was elected to put a stop to it but he didn't, clearly Bush's fault :rolleyes:. BP hired drillers and have taken responsibility for the bad results from the actions of their employees whom they approved, Obama is responsible for the actions of his employees who he's had 16 months to replace but has chosen not to, he is top dog responsible for his employees actions. He has taken full responsibility in statement since Day 1 for how the spill is being handled approving or denying attempts and ideas to stop it, it's success or failure has been in President Obama's hands. Now he's inviting movie producers in as experts to stop the leak, what a joke of successful leadership.

And some other people have talked about the damage to the economy from the fishermen being able to in only 66% of the gulf of Mexico not 100% . Reconsider your stance. Which will damage the economy more; the collapse of fishermen who were already overfishing the gulf to the point of non sustainability at the edge of poverty during a GOOD fishing season in your words (Mumbles... (as an example but the following remarks are not meant as an attack on you)), who are taking more tax money through collecting on social programs than they are generating before this happened; or roughnecks making $50k+ a year, the guys not working at poverty level in the refineries, the shipping industries transporting the oil by land or sea making 50k-120k+ a year, the people who run and work at the support industries, the food, the barges, the tugboats, the ironworkers making the platforms the guys who make and deliver the pipe used to drill miles under the surface, these guys and their families who have money and who are the ones paying the taxes from oil money that keep the schools open, pave the roads, fund the local govt., provide the money the state uses for welfare collected by the fishermen that feeds their children, and provided the money the government was supposed to have used to purchase emergency response supplies but didn't. Who's money buys the shrimp and fish the fishermen catch, fishermen at the edge of poverty or the people making a good living in the oil industry and it's associated industry's? How much better off will the fishing industry be when the price of the fuel for their boats goes up due to more demand than supply? If you want to see the economy truly collapse and see hardships by the people of that region, do more to eliminate these oil jobs and their tax money and let the out of work fishermen on the verge of poverty support themselves and the rest of the economy while out of work, brilliant idea :thumb: Take a look at Cuba's EEZ map for the Gulf of Mexico, China and Russia are negotiating for rights to drill in the Gulf of Mexico, and us stopping drilling only makes it a more lucrative investment to them, who will have better ecological and safety regulation, us or the people sending our children toys with lead paint?

The fish will be/have been affected, but I hope we can both agree that with the media's desire to in general regardless of political side or the particular subject of a story to sensationalize stories to generate more readership for their column and money for their employer. With that in mind the question should be arising in all our minds, where are the pictures of dead fish washing up on shore? Where are the images of dead fish floating in the water? This was all over the news for the Exxon Valdez spill and this one is wayyyy bigger than that now. The fishing was not closed because of dead fish.

Someone I know of who works in the oil industry posted on another forum i frequent (not an oil industry forum but he was the RKI for our questions) that with most new wells and even existing wells that are shut down for maintenance there is so much sand and aggregate that comes through the pipe on start-up that it's not uncommon to see internal erosion through the pipe wall, and that any valve on a new well that had been running wide fucking open for the last 40 days would be eroded away to the point of being non functional.
 
#143 ·
An economic system based on capitalism works best when everyone is working. What is your flipping point? Still clinging to the political blame game so that the industry has lesser shame in their failure to contain their problem in their never ending search for exploitation of the earth. No regard for the environment, economy or anything other than padding their profit line. I don't feel attacked by you. I'm not convinced. You can cry about Bush or Obama, who cares about that? There is a hole in the earth with oil pouring out oil and it is wrecking way more than either of us realize. I could give a crap about your buddy on the oil forum, if the problem is not fixed then we still have a problem. The longer the problem persists then the greater the damage, deeper the reach and the longer for any type of recovery.
 
#144 ·
FE427TP

My post was regarding the politics being left out of the Fly Fishing Forum (since you are a "newbie, you wouldn't know that) because threads get shut down on here often enough when people start talking politics unrelated to fishing, but I have been found guilty as well. I was upset because of the political ad posted on here. I found it to be unusual and bad taste, (I'm surprised there wasn't a mustache painted on Obama's face) but that's my liberal opinion. Tough shitski huh? By the way, you WILL see dead fish....
 
#148 ·
Then don't read it. Every one is being relativly civil man. There's nothing wrong with people being pissed about this. This is definatly fishing related. It's aready f-ed up some of my fishing plans for the summer, and possibly the fishing plans of the last 10-20 years of my life. Also, this WILL have an impact on fishing in the Pacific NW, and could have quite an impact on other PNW issues. Let's just hope the South eastern US population don't figure out how good BBQ salmon tastes.

Any way, the only reason this happend under Obama's watch is because Gdub wasn't smart enough to figure out how to get around the regulations.
 
#149 ·
I'm going to find it interesting, when and IF .... they cap the well with the latest equipment and pipe, to see how long it takes to fill a tanker from above. That way, knowing the capacity of the tanker, we can easily determine the gallons pumping into the gulf as a MINIMUM. I don't know what the pressure loss is for pumping (or natural pressure is if it is rising on it's own) but the gallons per minute would certainly be less at the top of the ocean versus where it is leaking at the bottom with massive pressures. It should be an easy calculation once we figure the tanker capacity and when the next tanker pulls in to "fill up". So now, we wait to see if they can get the damn thing hooked up.... ( But BP already knows the gallons per minute and pressures at the leak already, I have no doubts...)
 
#157 ·
There is a button that lets you privatly report offensive posts for removal. :beathead: What's with the public censors decidin what others should read. Lugan, chill man. Don't sweat the small stuff. Report the post to chris and he'll remove it if it's offensive. Scoones is cool like that.

Any way, would any of the Bios here know anything about bonefish spawning grounds? Does it look like they will get hit with oil? I'm guessing since they dig the shallow water and oil floats, it could pretty much destroy flats fishing down there for a while.

Also, are there bonefish in the philippines?
 
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