A question about our British Cousins

Discussion in 'Fly Fishing Forum' started by Olive bugger, Aug 21, 2014.

  1. Olive bugger

    Olive bugger Active Member

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    It has been my preception that we Colonist and Those Loyal to the
    Queen, have had disagreements over the years. Some more serious than others.

    But in my readings, I have been taken to the magic of those hallowed trout streams
    of England and the highlands. One thing that I have always puzzled about, is the regs on
    some of the beats. Like Casting upstream, with a dry fly, to a rising trout. Where did that come from?

    Now I know that it was a long time ago that Dame Juliana Berners wrote the book, and conservation being what it is or purported to be, that some regulation would be in order.
    Why, even our own WDFW insist on barbless hooks and knotless nets. But only a dry fly, upstream? And what is wrong with a lurking trout. Just because he is lazy, we should not shun him. I just don't understand.
     
  2. miyawaki

    miyawaki Active Member

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    There are no consistent rules that govern all rivers or waters in a given area as there are here. That being said, some of the very prime chalk streams didn't allow wading and with only a dry fly presented upstream and only to a rising fish. The waters are owned and they can make any rules the owner wished. Not at all like here on the other side of the pond.

    Leland.
     
  3. GAT

    GAT Dumbfounded

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    It seems, at one time, catching trout in rivers in England was extremely easy when fishing a dry fly down to rising fish.

    Too easy. As most rivers are a private affair and you must keep the fish and stop fishing once you catch your limit, the river keepers were having a hell of a time keeping the rivers stocked.

    It was simply too easy to catch the trout by fishing downstream to them with a dry fly.

    So, in an effort to reduce the number of trout caught and removed each day from the rivers, a rule was put in place to make it more difficult to catch the trout -- thus, the upstream to rising trout only rule.
     
  4. jeff bandy

    jeff bandy Make my day

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    Surprised they didn't just make them dull the hook. That way only a fish that really wanted to be landed, could be.
     
  5. Olive bugger

    Olive bugger Active Member

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    Not that it really matters, because I probably couldn't catch one upstream or downstream and I would most likely have the wrong flies.
     
  6. freestoneangler

    freestoneangler Not to be confused with Freestone

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    All I know is that they make lousy shore lunches. Two pieces of white bread with no crust and some type of mystery meat or spread, wrapped in wax paper. Cookies that shatter when you bite them. The flask of Royal Salute 38 scotch made up for those shortcomings however :D.
     
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  7. Olive bugger

    Olive bugger Active Member

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    The Engkish are not noted for their Cuisine. I believe that it was the Duke of Somethingorother Shire that invented the term, "drinking your lunch".
     
  8. Salmo_g

    Salmo_g Active Member

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    The Brits may or may not have invented sport fishing, but they surely institutionalized it. A definition of sport fishing is tradition, ethics, and restraint, three parameters that are barely tolerated by many Americans, especially that restraint part. Imagine trying to use the "dirty ass nymphing" technique employing a bobber and split shot to fish a nymph on the River Test. (Even God can't get a day on the Test.) Such a person would be drawn and quartered and hung in the public square.

    The upstream dry fly to rising trout is considered more sporting (regardless of whether it is or not) by those who defined the terms of sport fishing. Allowing your dry fly to drag downstream of your stand can get you ejected by the Ghillie, with your day ticket fee forfeited, because such unseemly behavior is too close to dirty ass nymphing.

    Sg
     
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  9. miyawaki

    miyawaki Active Member

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    In the UK, fishing IS flyfishing. Coarse fishing is everything else.
    Leland.
     
  10. Greg Armstrong

    Greg Armstrong Active Member

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    A couple centuries ago (well, almost a couple) it was Hiram Leonard that split the first bamboo and created the finest fly rods known at the time - right here in the good old USA.
    But it was from the UK that the very best fly reels emerged from the likes of Dingley, Young and Hardys. Some of these reels were referred to as "poachers" as they were made with silent cheques so as not to draw the attention of the stream keeper or the ghillie while fishing the forbidden waters at night.
    I'd bet they fished down, up, as well as across during those times.
     
  11. GAT

    GAT Dumbfounded

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    BTW: I made up my post. I have absolutely no idea where the stupid "only cast to upstream rising trout" came from... never trust a cartoon guy :)
     
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  12. wadin' boot

    wadin' boot Donny, you're out of your element...

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    Alls I know is if it weren't for some ballsy Militiamen running those limey redcoats back down the Lexington road to the Charles River Marshes in April of '75 we'd probably all be bitching about casting dry flies upstream. We'd be unable to chew red meat because of our horrible British teeth-if we were still lucky to have them- and people would be talking fondly of marmite and tea towels. Jesus we'd be stuck with the metric system, left hand drive, and handkerchiefs. Not only that we wouldn't even say Teeth, it would be more like "teef". as in "oi, guv'na, your teef look right flash with that marmite on 'em"
     
  13. Dave Boyle

    Dave Boyle Active Member

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    This all about Halford vs. Skues, classically speaking on the trout chalk stream or Test vs. Itchen. Both were riverkeepers. One was a dry fly purist, the other a pragmatist who noted that fish ate more subsurface more than surface and so nymphing was the go when there was no hatch to fish. I can't remember who was who but I think Skues was the nympher. However, this was Victorian England and being as messed up as it was thought more about the 'honor' than the practicality of a good days. Really it's like swinging spey or indicator beads, one has more fish but is it fishing? Answers by the dozen on a pinhead please. This is not a trolling as not on the steelie page, think fishing a massively weighted intruder on the stilly...Right or wrong really who knows but by the regs yes.

    Dave
     
  14. Dave Boyle

    Dave Boyle Active Member

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    By nymphing, I mean a small wet/soft hackle or sunk dry fly on a gut cast and greased/or not silk line cast from a cane rod and cast down and across as opposed to casting upstream. How one is meant to fish the Stilly I suppose but not with a nymphs, at least not with dirty bobbers . So really devolved from current technology but similar in point.

    Dave
     
  15. Tim Lockhart

    Tim Lockhart Working late at The Office

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    Aye truer words mate, however I suppose it's a wash. They know their world events and politics, including ours, where we do not, they can drive (no, we cannot), and they ARE popculture. Besides, you should hear them talk about us, much more clever and entertaining. The humor is unmatched. Anywhere. And not all bad to be there...the Kings Head was a mere block from my house and I could bring my dog. Yes, you heard right. Perhaps best is at any given game fishing tackle store (fly shop) your american accent gets you the red carpet.

    But would I rather live there than here? Hell no.
     
  16. Olive bugger

    Olive bugger Active Member

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    OK, so what kind of bugs do they have? I ain't gonna be going over anytime soon, but just suppose! Assuming I got my 5 wt with me Hardy reel, and Airflo line/leader. I got my tweed hat, perhaps that is over the top a bit, but hey, this is fantasy land. Am I going to need a jacket with leather patches at the elbow? What about bait? Can a body purchase bait near the beat? I have never been there so I am really uninformed.

    And another thing, do they have ROUNDABOUTS on the roadways?
     
  17. Tim Lockhart

    Tim Lockhart Working late at The Office

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    They have proper roundabouts, clockwise multilane, some with stoplights. Some even on the major highways.

    As far as bait, they have their versions, with their names, of many of the same bugs. But I did learn the hard way what biting midges are.
     
  18. Olive bugger

    Olive bugger Active Member

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    So, I am going to assume that a biting midge is not necessarily a guarantee of catching a fish? Perhaps some Deets would be in order?
     
  19. GAT

    GAT Dumbfounded

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    From conversing with folks who live there or from here and fished in GB, they use the same basic patterns for rivers as do we.

    However, the majority of the public fishing is done at lakes and they do use an interesting pattern we normally use. It is called a "Booby". It is a midge emerger pattern that includes two foam balls at the head to help hold it in the film
     
  20. wadin' boot

    wadin' boot Donny, you're out of your element...

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    CSI Avon-on-Trent:

    Archibald Tornbee-Snoad enjoyed barbel and tench fishing. The rituals of baiting his hook with fresh maggots, whistling Cliff Richard tunes and listening to the burble of test cricket on his transistor remained the most peaceful moments of his sad, sunburnt sandal-and-sock wearing existence. Not once as he cast his maggot-wrapped hook towards a the murky brown pond behind the tower of dismal counsel flats did he think of his wife, Venita Tornbee-Snoad, who had not been seen in well over a week.

    "Why these maggots wriggle so well..." Archie muttered to himself
     

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