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A River Runs Through It TRIVIA

11K views 83 replies 32 participants last post by  Tom House 
#1 ·
Who knows the name of the KNOT the old man is tying at the beginning of the movie?
 
#35 ·
As I mentioned, some good things did come from the huge influx of fly anglers. Fly tying products and gear probably gained the most. When there wasn't as many customers, the advent of gear and materials improvements were slow to evolve. Once "the movie" created thousands of additional customers, improvements came about quite quickly.

There is no doubt in my mind that "the movie" helped create the Golden Age of Fly Tying.
Never before was there so much in the way of materials and tools to pick from. Everything from hooks to chicken feathers vastly improved. The flies tied today are far and beyond better than those tied before "the movie" caused the interest in flyfishing and tying.

And of course, many, many more start-up companies started selling rods, reels, vests, personal floating craft, waders and boots.

So really, the only downside was the sudden crowding conditions on the rivers and lakes ... sure it's selfish to want it all for a limited number but that's the way it was before the popularity of the sport skyrocketed after the movie hit the theaters. Some of us old guys were accustomed to very few others on flyfishing only fisheries and we suddenly felt over-ran. The movie was held to blame.

I remember fishing The Metolius before "the movie" and it was rare to see more than a handful of other fly anglers on the river. So, there was lots of space and you felt a bit of a solitude while fishing the river. That quickly evaporated right after Robert Redford caused an avalanche of new flyfishers. The Met became so crowded, I stopped fishing it.

Damn that Robert Redford :D
 
#36 ·
Bimini twist... yup, for sure a BT. Anil showed me that effing knot 3x prior to a Key West trip and I could not even begin to start one two days later. Whoever is responsible for that horror of a knot is demented.
 
#39 ·
IIRC Visa Card ran an ad back in the late '60s or early '70's with a lovely bamboo rod, a nice reel and a colorful fly. A fellow tied the fly on the leader and cast the fly out in a delightful loop and the fly settled on the water. That was, to me, the beginning of the influx of new blood into the sport. The move came along to bolster the sport as the
interest began to stablize.

I believe that he used a cinch knot in that commercial.

As far as the River knot, I have no idea of what it is. I like the granny knot on all of my lines. Saves cleaning fish.
 
#40 ·
A fellow by the name of Jason Borger did the majority of the casting that you see in the movie. This was accomplished by a bit of slight-of-hand with Jason's casting being what you see through the use of what was dubbed "shadow casting". Jason did the actual casting on the river and a blue screen was used by the actors to mimic the casting motions of Jason with a rod and reel in their hand, but no line, in the studio. Then movie magic editing was used to make it look like the actors were laying out those beautiful loops on the river.

For the close-up shots of actors on the river, the actors were doing the casting, but if you notice when watching the movie, there was always a slight "break" when it moved from a close-up to wide-angle shot of the casting, or vice-versa.

My problem with this movie has nothing to do with the increased interest in fly fishing that it generated because I happen to think that was and still is a good thing. My problem with the movie is that the fly fishing sequences are usually very unrealistic, but those who have never fly fished, or have only fly fished a very little, don't know that. They think this is the way it should be done.

I also have a problem with movie making it seem like a good fly fisher is able to go forth and catch some pretty impressive trout provided he has the proper fly. And of course, it has to be a dry fly.

Yes, the casting is excellent, which I would expect and would have been very disappointed if it hadn't been so due to Jason's great skill. But the fishing sequences are not realistic, as any of us with a few years of fly fishing experience know. And we also know that dry flies, especially standard dry flies tied in the Halford and Gordon traditions of supposedly imitating mayflies, are not very likely to result in large fish being hooked that are shown in the movie on rivers of that type. A large Salmon Fly Stonefly, October Caddis, Hex Mayfly, Eastern Green Drake, and similar large flies can and do result in such large trout being taken on dries. But when was the last time you saw, or heard, about a large 4-5 pound (or large like the movie) trout being raised and caught on a standard #14 dry fly in a free-stone river?
 
#43 ·
Perhaps the changes in the fishing environment have cause some to pause or decline to take up the silk line and limber heartwood.

Cost of gear has exploded! There is a intimidating amount of gear out there and casting is not as easy as chucking a chunkalead and worm out with an inexpensive spinning reel on a fiberglass rod. Marketing has gone pretty much to the high end with trips to exotic places to fish for a week or extended time. Access to good water is a premium and usually will cost more than a day at the park with planted fish.


Of course there is an up side to that also. Gear, while being more expensive, is also technically advanced. Albeit, some still prefer the
old school bamboo rod and/or a semi soft fiberglass rod.

The idea in my books however, is to enjoy a trip with rod and reel and let the chips fall where they may.
 
#45 ·
Turle. If you notice how his wrist twists and the movement of his fingers, it's clear he's forming a slipnot--the first knot formed before passing it over the fly to secure the loop over the shank behind the eye, thus completing the Turle. For me, the giveaway movements were how he first pushes the loop through the bight to initially form the slipknot and then the fingers of one handing hold open the loop while the other hand sets the choking/cinching part of the knot.
 
#46 ·
That movie did more to ruin fly fishing than all the gill nets in the Sahara
Amen to that, Don.
Just after it came out all the rivers and lakes became over run by newbies equipped with expensive gear.
And it seemed to me like these folks kept their flies in the air more than in the water.
Also noticed how long distance casting was something of their badge showing off what they were taught in casting classes.
Ironic really since most fish are hooked within 35 ft of you.
 
#47 ·
Amen to that, Don.
Just after it came out all the rivers and lakes became over run by newbies equipped with expensive gear.
And it seemed to me like these folks kept their flies in the air more than in the water.
Also noticed how long distance casting was something of their badge showing off what they were taught in casting classes.
Ironic really since most fish are hooked within 35 ft of you.
Very true. Another thing I see is that some will wade into the river before even looking at the near bank to see if there are any good drifts or holes that can be fished. Seems like they are fixed on the other side of the river with a fifty yard cast and a #22 fly. Unfortunately almost all will never achieve that goal.
 
#48 ·
One day while fishing the Barns Holes in YNP, a young lady and her dog showed up. As I'm keen to watch what other fly anglers are doing, I watched her string up her rod, walk down to the river and start casting. She was quite impressive. She was making long, long beautiful casts. I'm sure everyone at the Barns Holes was impressed.

After a half hour of casting, she packed up and drove away.

Evidently some folks prefer casting to actually catching fish. Personally, I'm in it for the catching bit and not the casting. At the time, a dead drift presentation with a dropper system was working to catch trout so you didn't need to cast any further than 20 feet.

But boy howdy!... she could cast... she didn't catch any fish but she sure could cast!
 
#52 ·
I loved the fly casting in this movie. I had already been fly fishing for about 15 years with mostly glass and in 81 went to full flex superfine rods. Many of the casting that was filmed just can not be done with a fast rod, soft flexing rods allow so many more cast and manipulations of the line there is really no comparison.

I have fished with some other fisherman recently that just had to cast a country mile all day long! it seems the "ART OF CASTING" means a whole new thing these days. The tight loop 70 to 90 ft. bombs seem to prove how good a fly fisherman is today - NOT -

Its the shadow cast - the 40 to 50 ft. roll cast turning over a 12 to 14 ft. leader that is the art of fly casting! The side arm - under brush cast or the drop cast - loop under just over the water lifting fly at the end of cast to float down like a feather to "touch the water" that rules the art of fly casting!

What I noticed about the casting in the movie was how the rod flexed even after the cast was complete, vibrating, tip being pulled "flexed" with the line still in its loop! all the things that today's rod makers or fly fisherman considered CRAP or noodles or worthless!

The art of casting to me has nothing to do with a 90 ft. cast, should you be able to do one "yes" for certain situations but has nothing to do with the art if you ask me! I have a couple bombing rods but all the rest are flexing "NOODLES" because there are things you can do with boo - glass - and noodle graphite you can never do with a fast - tip flex bomber. Give me the 30 to 60 foot comfortable casting distance and let me play with the "art of casting" and catch fish all day long and you will hear any complaints from me!

I myself loved the movie and could care less how many people picked up the sport. One thing I do know is 10% of the fisherman catch 90% of the fish! More people in fly fishing only means that people became much more aware of what managing quality waters for fish means.
 
#58 ·
RRTI Trivia - Watch the segment where paul catches the big rainbow and follows the trout downstream. The scene was shot twice; once in the summer during primary shooting.

Then during editing, Redford was not satisfied and Jason had to shoot the scene again during winter in FEBRUARY in period clothing. The river was lined with artificial greenery. But because of the harsh winter light, they could not color balance the winter shots to match the summer shots. You can tell what scenes were shot during winter and which ones during summer.

Second trivia - two different rainbows were used during this part of the movie. One is clearly a hook jawed male but the other is a female. You can tell that the fish are switched when you closely examine the fish during various shots.

Third Trivia - For that scene, Jason went to the Yellowstone in Paradise Valley and caught two large rainbows. Jason put them in a cage in the river so he could recover them when needed. When the scene was scheduled to be shot, Jason went back to get the fish. He discovered the someone had either taken or released the fish. Jason then had to fish and catch two more large rainbows which are the ones used in the scene.

Fourth Trivia - the movie poster has Jason making the cast. The leader was not obvious enough in the photo so it was retouched. The retouching only accentuated the leader and did not change the cast.

 
#61 ·
"He called it shadow casting . . . Keeping his line above the water long enough and low enough to make a rainbow rise."

WTF does that even mean?!? I always bristled at the "shadow casting" scene. What a load. And everyone who decided to take up a fly rod after they saw the movie did so because they bought that load of romantic crap.
 
#73 ·
It's not a load, it's a metaphor.

McLean uses shadow casting and the trajectory of the fly to describe Paul's character and the way he was living his life in the book. If people think the intent of that passage was to describe a real form of casting that could be used to catch fish and impress their friends, they are missing the point. Come on people, just enjoy the imagery and quit being so literal.

Wallace Stegner has some great thoughts on a River Runs Through It in his collection of essays 'Where the Bluebird Sings to the Lemonade Springs.' If you haven't read it, it's worth the read.
 
#62 ·
Jason enjoys haiku:
"under a big sky
shadows cast in a rhythm
perfect memories"

Norman Maclean wrote about and coined the phrase "shadow casting" but it may be Jason's Albatross. I am a reasonable caster and spend time at it. As such I admire the guys who are really good, and there are only a hand full. In 30 years or so I've only seen two or 3 guys do the following. One was a gentleman casting at the GGCC pools in San Francisco, and the other was Juro Mukai at one of the local Spey gatherings. These guys can throw the line with the PERFECT application of power, regardless of distance, and the line unrolls low over the water, extends fully all the way through the leader to the fly, and I swear that it hovers for maybe a split second before settling calmly onto the water. I don't know that that is what Norman is describing, but it is pretty amazing when you see it. I wish I could do it. Maybe with more practice.
 
#63 ·
Well... that's nice. Problem is, unless we're talking about egg laying bugs, hatching insects do not flutter above the surface after they hatch... they get the hell out of there.

So if you can somehow create a levitation with your fly pattern above the water, why? I've seen trout jump out of the water to take a damselfly fluttering above the surface but that's about it.

I've never seen a trout jump out of moving water -- which is what we're talking about -- to take a bug in flight.

I've noticed there's a lot of assumptions that exist in our sport... but they are not based in fact. Most likely, McLean assumed trout we enticed to strike a pattern that first levitates above the surface and then falls into the water. In the case of a spinner, that's true but spinners don't really hover above the surface before taking a dive.

Normally, female aquatic insects fly directly to the surface, land, lay their eggs (or dive to lay their eggs in the case of the diving caddis) and either fly off to another spot or die.

They don't hover above the surface looking for the perfect spot.

So... again, even if you can master the so called dry fly levitation presentation called shadow casting, why?
 
#80 ·
Well... that's nice. Problem is, unless we're talking about egg laying bugs, hatching insects do not flutter above the surface after they hatch... they get the hell out of there.

So if you can somehow create a levitation with your fly pattern above the water, why? I've seen trout jump out of the water to take a damselfly fluttering above the surface but that's about it.

I've never seen a trout jump out of moving water -- which is what we're talking about -- to take a bug in flight.

I've noticed there's a lot of assumptions that exist in our sport... but they are not based in fact. Most likely, McLean assumed trout we enticed to strike a pattern that first levitates above the surface and then falls into the water. In the case of a spinner, that's true but spinners don't really hover above the surface before taking a dive.

Normally, female aquatic insects fly directly to the surface, land, lay their eggs (or dive to lay their eggs in the case of the diving caddis) and either fly off to another spot or die.

They don't hover above the surface looking for the perfect spot.

So... again, even if you can master the so called dry fly levitation presentation called shadow casting, why?
I've seen trout leap clear out of the water and well over a foot further chasing flying insects(caddis mostly) in B.C,Alberta,N.W.T,New Zealand,Patagonia and Minsk.....maybe your too busy changing your fly
 
#64 ·
I should have read Normans passage before I wrote the above:
"…cast hard and low upstream, skimming the water with the fly but never letting it touch. Then he would pivot, reverse his line in a great oval above his head, and drive his line low and hard downstream, again, skimming the water with his fly "

I'm not suggesting that trout will leap to the fly in the split second of hover. Probably not impossible, but not a high percentage shot. I was sharing a personal observation, but I'm not sure what Norman is talking about. Probably just filling a page.
 
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