Bayley and McDowell closed

Discussion in 'Fly Fishing Forum' started by IveofIone, Oct 9, 2013.

  1. Old406Kid Active Member

    Posts: 328
    Spokane, WA
    Ratings: +89 / 0
    The Little Pend Oreille Wildlife Refuge was/is closed to all activities as I understand. My friends called and spoke to the
    enforcement officer's wife for confirmation.
    Little Twin had the launch area barricaded being on National Forest land.
    Maybe some employees take it more seriously than others.
  2. jersey livin' the dream

    Posts: 237
    sonoma county
    Ratings: +74 / 0
    Cones and small barricades were placed up along Lassen Nat'l forest this weekend. A good deal of folks parked politely next to them and entered the creeks. Funny how no one needed to be protected from themselves and all folks you ran into were unbelievably polite. Refreshing!
  3. Jim Wallace Smells like low tide

    Posts: 5,663
    Somewhere on the Coast
    Ratings: +544 / 0
    Best fucking October weather I've ever seen, and the dumb teabagging fucks in the House of Reps are stealing our access to our National Parks. I will never forgive them. I hope they all drop dead!:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:
    At least the surf has been decent. I can go surfing and work off my rage.
  4. Vladimir Steblina Retired Forester...now fishing instead of working

    Posts: 739
    Wenatchee, WA
    Ratings: +241 / 0
    No........ Department of Interior generally follows Presidential orders much more closely than other land management agencies. Also those Federal lands closer to urban areas are generally in the spotlight so they also follow the direction set by the President. In rural areas, it is much more lax since the political pressure is usually on the other side. That is another reason for not moving the National Forests to Interior. Except they are changing and becoming more and more like the "government" everyday.

    Was there are closure order on the cones at Little Twin? If the Colville campgrounds are under a concessionaire program many times the facilities are gated this time of year for liability and damage reasons. However, National Forest campgrounds are always open to walk in even if motorized use is closed.

    I would ask the law enforcement type on the Colville. They SHOULD be working!!

    Jim, the lack of funding is the result of a disagreement between the House, Senate and President. The closure order of public lands is strictly a Presidential decision. He can reverse it at any time by issuing an Executive Order opening the Department of Interior public lands to public entry.

    From the Missoulian: http://missoulian.com/news/local/u-s-forest-service-workers-head-home-national-forests-remain/article_7abbed24-2ab7-11e3-bba4-001a4bcf887a.html

    And also from the Missoulian on USF&W closures: http://missoulian.com/news/local/federal-lands-off-limits-to-montana-pheasant-hunters-during-shutdown/article_3a306122-320f-11e3-b49c-0019bb2963f4.html

    Here is the official word from the Lolo National Forest.....notice they do not mention land closures just recreation facility closures:

    Due to the lapse in agency funding, the sale of all types of permits (i.e., recreation, firewood, forest products, mineral materials for example) are suspended, recreation.gov reservations are suspended, and all federally owned recreation sites are closed. All offices are closed. These services will be available once funding is restored.
    Law enforcement, fire suppression, and other essential services will continue without interruption.
    This web site will remain available for public safety announcements and updates such as for wildfire, floods, and so forth. We will attempt to make timely updates about public health and safety on these web pages as appropriate. We sincerely regret this inconvenience.



    For general information on Forest Service shutdown procedures, please visithttp://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/contingency-plans/.

    Jim, there is your contact information in bold above.
  5. Mike Active Member

    Posts: 246
    Someplace between here and there
    Ratings: +44 / 0
    Why should the executive open public lands? Considering the many others being hurt by lack of paychecks and financial support (there are some takers but many are truly in need), access to public lands should not rank very high. It just tells me how out of touch many people really are.


    Some people wanted the stupidity of a shut down and they got it. Now we get to live with it and not pick and choose our special little interests that should be exempt. That is what put us in this position in the first place.
  6. Vladimir Steblina Retired Forester...now fishing instead of working

    Posts: 739
    Wenatchee, WA
    Ratings: +241 / 0


    Access to public lands ranks REAL HIGH is parts of the west. It is the economy in many areas. It is why Utah and other states are paying to reopen National Parks.

    My ONLY point is that the President made the decision to close public lands. He is the ONLY one that can make the decision to open them to public entry. ALL the FEDERAL agencies, but two, work for the President. It is part of the Constitution.

    The rest of it is a political argument of who's right and who's wrong.
    Nooksack Mac likes this.
  7. PT Physhicist

    Posts: 3,593
    Edmonds, WA
    Ratings: +752 / 2
    You're right. Those are public lands and I will decide which part of this pathetic shutdown bothers me the most. Those lands aren't the Presidents, the politicians, etc. They're MINE! And it pisses me off that "they" don't see this. If we come out of this and continue bickering which party is "better", we will have learned nothing. If we come out of this and vote every one of them out of office, we'll at least be sending a message to the next group of politicians that it might be wise to start working for us.

    Which part of this shutdown should I let bother me?
  8. Old Man Just an Old Man

    Posts: 21,826
    Dillon, Mt
    Ratings: +1,733 / 0
    None of it. I'm retired, so what do I care. They can continue to beat their heads against the wall. I'm one of the little people. They don't give a shit about the little people. And us old people. They probably would wish we would all die off.
  9. Vladimir Steblina Retired Forester...now fishing instead of working

    Posts: 739
    Wenatchee, WA
    Ratings: +241 / 0
    [quote="Old Man, post: 878135, member: 492"I'm one of the little people. They don't give a shit about the little people. And us old people. They probably would wish we would all die off.[/quote]

    Hey, your lucky you are living in Montana.

    I went to the emergency room here and got some pain medication as part of the treatment. The Dr. refused to refill the pain prescription. AND he cited Washington's new pain medication law.

    So I called the Washington Health Commission to file a complaint against the Dr. Good luck and get a good lawyer, because pain medication treatment in Washington is considered "best practices".

    I got the distinct impression that as an "old" person having me in pain meant that I would die sooner. AND my death would help the "WAR on PRESCRIPTION DRUG ABUSE". You know opium in Washington state on the street is cheaper than pain reliever. This is in a state that legalized marijuana!!

    I think as old farts we need to stop the machine.....what do we care at this point?? Things are going to hell in a hand basket. Lets accelerate the process!! Vote to create as much CHAOS as possible!!

    It will provide entertainment in our "golden" years.
  10. Boomer51 New Member

    Posts: 8
    Billings, MT
    Ratings: +7 / 0

    Really??? Why? I'll tell you why. There's no right to a government job. There's no right to welfare and other benefits paid to others by those of us who work or assess off to pay for those who can't or won't. THERE IS A RIGHT FOR THE PUBLIC TO ACCESS PUBLIC LAND. THAT'S WHY. The fact that you question that right is why there's problems today in this country.

    Red in the face in Montana,

    Jim
    Nick Clayton and PT like this.
  11. IveofIone Active Member

    Posts: 3,096
    .
    Ratings: +1,116 / 0
    Are you sure that red isn't in the neck?:rolleyes:
    Jamie Wilson, cabezon and SteveA like this.
  12. Boomer51 New Member

    Posts: 8
    Billings, MT
    Ratings: +7 / 0
  13. Mike Active Member

    Posts: 246
    Someplace between here and there
    Ratings: +44 / 0

    I thought it was apoplexy. I sure hope he signed up for the ACA because this is all going to happen again in a few more months.
  14. Boomer51 New Member

    Posts: 8
    Billings, MT
    Ratings: +7 / 0
    Sounds like we're going to be good to go tomorrow. When you read about the grandfather in MT that defies the NPS in and launches his drift boat at the afterbay on the Bighorn on January 16 (the first day of the next shut down) you'll know it's me.

    After the taxes I've paid over the year, and the ramp passes I've purchased over the years from the NPS, it's pretty shitty of them to put up jersey barriers and close the concrete launch ramp. In over 40 years of fishing the river (broken in the middle due to an access dispute by the Crow Tribe, that was adjudicated in the favor of fisherman by the United States Supreme Court), I've never seen a NPS employee at a boat launch on the river do anything except check parking passes (and only one time). If they provided any value-added service (or any service at the site at all, for that matter), or there was anything at the launch to protect other than gravel, I could understand blocking access. As it is, the closure is just to make people hurt. That's not enough reason to keep the public from accessing this piece of public property, in my opinion. If your opinion is different, its wrong! ;)

    Still Red in MT
    Nooksack Mac, PT and Nick Clayton like this.
  15. Mark Walker Active Member

    Posts: 2,775
    So. Cal.
    Ratings: +229 / 1
    If this is accurate and it wouldn't surprise me in the least, it's very disturbing............

    "Did anyone besides me wonder how they got all those signs printed and distributed far and wide, including to all the national parks and cemeteries overseas only eight to ten hours after the government shut down? Take a look at this from someone who wanted to remain anonymous.

    I have worked in the government on and off for 30 years. During that time I became quite familiar with requisitions, bidding, awarding contracts etc. It is a time consuming process with bean-counters and pencil-necked bureaucrats every step of the way. The simplest request takes months not days or hours.
    In less than 8 hours of the shutdown, miraculously, professionally printed 3X4 foot signs appeared all over the country in the tens of thousands saying-“this [park, facility, etc. with custom logos] closed due to government shutdown. There has not been a government shutdown in 17 years. These signs were designed, specifications were determined, signs were then requisitioned, bids were posted and vetted, government contracts were awarded. The materials were then ordered and the signs manufactured then distributed U.S. Mails or freight companies.

    This shutdown was orchestrated and planned well in advance at least 6-8 months ago. Millions of tax dollars were appropriated and spent in this process. There is a paper trail a mile long leading directly to the White House."

    :mad:
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  16. Old Man Just an Old Man

    Posts: 21,826
    Dillon, Mt
    Ratings: +1,733 / 0
    It sounds like a lot of people didn't save for a rainy day. When I worked I tried to save a little each pay check to cover the rainy days.

    My son works for the Federal Government. He makes 6 figures a year. Yet this government shut down put him in a bind. Their pay stops but the bills don't stop. Maybe when they shut the Government down next time they ought to shut the whole Nation down. Then see how fast they resolve things.
    Nooksack Mac likes this.
  17. Nooksack Mac Active Member

    Posts: 1,965
    Bellingham, WA, USA.
    Ratings: +121 / 0
    I've been waiting for a discussion like this since the closures began. Some of you seem to have an inkling of the fundamental principles involved, and a few are still in the mindset of "good citizens." (Yes, I mean that in a bad way.)

    It's understandable, in terms of normal behavior, that the neatly uniformed people closed and locked the gates before going home. Don't we all lock our houses or work places when going away for a while? But most of the Ranger Rics and their supervisors missed the point: they administer the people's properties (when not closed due to budgetary emergencies like the latest one); they don't own them. We the people do. Whether it's the National War Memorials in B.C., the footpaths around Old Faithful, or Site 6 at my favorite Nat. Forest campground, it's ours, not theirs. The proper response to a locked access on federal administered property is a big truck and a big logging chain. The federal government may lapse into a coma from time to time - in fact, it's bound to happen again and again - but the lands that we own in common remain. The worst disgrace isn't trash dumped at the closed gate of a BLM recreational access, it's you and I, stopped outside the gate, who mutter a curse, sigh, and slink away.
    Nick Clayton and Boomer51 like this.
  18. Peyton00 Active Member

    Posts: 771
    Puyallup, Wa.
    Ratings: +341 / 0

    If he gets in a bind in just 2 weeks... he needs to redo his 4th grade math class, he also failed his budget and finance classes too.

    Sounds like he spends every dime he makes and cant save a nickel.
  19. Old Man Just an Old Man

    Posts: 21,826
    Dillon, Mt
    Ratings: +1,733 / 0
    I think he does. He lives in Chicago. The cost of living there isn't as cheap as in Montana. Plus he has four teenage kids. These aren't cheap.