Dave Scadden vs Watermaster

Discussion in 'Watercraft' started by Steezn290, Mar 12, 2013.

?

Which Boat is better?

Poll closed Apr 23, 2013.
Watermaster Kodiak 22 vote(s) 62.9%
Dave Scadden Rampage 13 vote(s) 37.1%
  1. pdev Salmon On the Fly

    Posts: 31
    Cowichan River BC
    Ratings: +7 / 0
    I'm sorry, but my opinion is based on my personal experience. I cannot compare the 2 drifters as I have never drifted a Watermaster. I made my purchase based on the reviews i read comparing the 2. The result - most people preferred the handling characteristics of the Assault XX. I read a few negative reviews on Mr Scadden. Since most problems involved distribution I decided to pick up everything at his warehouse with absolutely no problems whatsoever, also I had a face to face with Mr scadden and really don't understand what people find wrong. When I got home in BC Canada with my purchases, I found a slightly stripped oar lock. I called Scadden's, explained my problem and had a replacement Oar lock shipped to my door via UPS at no cost to me IN 3 DAYS.
    That's my experience with Mr. Scadden so I guess we are not in agreement regarding Scadden Service.
    BTW I don't spend my time looking for bad threads, I have better things to do.
    So be it.
    Tight lines
    Pete
  2. pdev Salmon On the Fly

    Posts: 31
    Cowichan River BC
    Ratings: +7 / 0
    Greg
    That's what I like to hear!!!! Positive comments on both!! I don't think there is much difference but since you have both your comments are meaningful..
    Pete
  3. Steezn290 Member

    Posts: 76
    Ratings: +14 / 0
    Oh i'm sure they both make good boats... But saying go Scadden with no explanation why you thought that was really odd. Especially right after I gave a review about why I purchased a Water Master and what I thought of them

    It would have made more sense if you said I purchased a Scadden and this is why "........." :)

    Anyways, i'm glad to hear you have had good luck with scadden and their customer service. Hope to here more/similar reviews in the future!
  4. pdev Salmon On the Fly

    Posts: 31
    Cowichan River BC
    Ratings: +7 / 0
    You are correct! my initial post was too blunt and not well thought out. I am sure both boats have their good points and it looks like we are both happy with our service so that's great. I too will monitor future reviews.
    Cheers
    Pete
  5. Salmo_g Active Member

    Posts: 7,286
    Your City ,State
    Ratings: +1,392 / 0
    Steezn290,

    Glad to read of your positive experiences. I used my WM Kodiak on an 8 day float trip last summer, and am planning a repeat this year.

    Sg
  6. pdev Salmon On the Fly

    Posts: 31
    Cowichan River BC
    Ratings: +7 / 0
  7. pdev Salmon On the Fly

    Posts: 31
    Cowichan River BC
    Ratings: +7 / 0
    What area do you usually go to? Just generally. I stay pretty close as I have a place on the Cowichan River in the FF Only section of the upper river. I've drifted the Cowie with my new Scadden and it works well. anchoring with a Scotty rig is a little tricky. Can't wait to try the Lake.
  8. Salmo_g Active Member

    Posts: 7,286
    Your City ,State
    Ratings: +1,392 / 0
    Pdev,

    I upgraded to the Kodiak with southwest Alaska float trips in mind, but so far the only over-night trip was the Dean last summer and coming up this summer. Packs well in a Beaver or helicopter.

    Sg
  9. JesseC Active Member

    Posts: 1,915
    seattle, wa
    Ratings: +684 / 0
    I've owned a watermaster silvertip and an assaultxx

    The watermaster seems like it's the more durable boat long term.

    The AssaultXX rows easier even though it's a two man boat. However, it feels cheaper and less durable.

    I think if you saw both boats side by side 8 out of 10 people would choose the watermaster if the price was the same. It's clearly a better made boat and will last a lot longer than the NFO stuff. The material seems heftier, the seams seem sturdier, and the finish is much better than the NFO products.

    That being said, can you really beat the value of NFO boats? There was an Assault on the classified for $600 the other day. That's a damn fine boat for $600! I love rowing my assault. It's a great boat even loaded up with a bunch of gear and two guys. I am just worried when something goes wrong I'll be out of commission for a couple months waiting for parts. Only time will tell in terms of durability.
    Gregg Lundgren likes this.
  10. Blue Active Member

    Posts: 1,080
    Salt Lake City, UT
    Ratings: +80 / 0




    I am truly not trying to start anything here, but I would like to know, what parts are you referring to?
  11. pdev Salmon On the Fly

    Posts: 31
    Cowichan River BC
    Ratings: +7 / 0


    Hi Jessie,

    As i reported previously, I had a slight problem with an oarlock and received my replacement at my door in Canada 3 days from the time I reported the problem to Scadden Head Office... I called them and got immediate response. I can't imagine a problem with parts as there are hardly any and they are small and easily replaced. I suppose an oar might take longer but can't see why if its his regular line.. I based my choice of Assault over WM based on reviews of better handling. That is very important to me but I'm sure the WM would have been OK. Only time will tell re: durability. I am a light user as the river that I live on (Cowichan) is only good for drift fishing in spring and fall for short periods. The only other time I will use it is for a couple of still water trips annually. I usually use my 16 ft Harbercraft all welded when fishing larger lakes like Lake Cowichan.
    Personally I think Mr. Scadden got some pretty tough criticism re: distribution of mainly those upgrade oars which I understand he has some difficulty supplying. After meeting him in person and discussing the adverse reviews I believe he is doing everything he can to resolve his problems. I liked him and got a great first impression.
    I feel confident he will serve me well if I have a future problem.
    Tight lines,
    Pete
  12. CMustang1 _

    Posts: 24
    Ratings: +5 / 0
    I was trying to stay out of this thread. It turns my stomach to read about pro Scadden people saying the rest of us that have had the most horrendous experience of our lives, are out there in left field wack jobs who don't know what we are talking about. These are NOT anomalies, they are every day terrible experiences that happen to honest, hard working people that were sucked into the hype and lies. For the record, I have called Dave a liar in legal documents and to his face. If you notice, almost all of the "good" experiences that you read about have been with frame less boats with cheap oars(maybe an occasional upgrade oars that took months to come in). The rest of us that spent well over $3000 on a framed boat with an extensive list of accessories have a different set of FACTS. I could not put the frame together for THREE months due to wrong/missing/damaged parts, let alone try to use it. These issues are not only accessories, but the boat itself. Blue has stated to just use cheap oars while waiting months for the upgraded oars. That is fine and dandy for frame less, but not for framed boats. The safety issues that still have not been addressed also prevent me from using the boat as intended. Yes, Dave is a great salesman and sounds SOOOO believable, until you realize that you have been lied to for years about what was going to be included in the package and that half of the big selling points on his boats are no longer valid. To date, even if all of the issues were addressed and the 2 sets of power stroke oars that I was promised(and that I have paid for in my package) did show up, I still would not be able to use the boat for the advertised and intended uses. As stated in my oars thread, I have successfully owned numerous companies that have had to deal with the Scadden's of the world. After 9/11 I had to cut off business with some of the world's biggest airlines, because they would not pay their bill on time. Once they started to pay on time, then I did business with them again. Some airlines I never did do business with again or if I did they had to pay a higher amount and/or had to spend a certain amount before I would agree to do business with them. So when companies that supply Dave parts have to do the same thing, it is not their fault that he is not ethical. Supply problems almost always stem from someone not paying their bill in a timely matter and it does not matter what the industry is. After FOUR months of this, I can honestly say that Dave has NOT done everything he can to resolve these issues. I still can not use the boat for it's advertised and intended use.
    chromefinder and james.jimenez like this.
  13. Blue Active Member

    Posts: 1,080
    Salt Lake City, UT
    Ratings: +80 / 0


    I have read your posts and understand you are upset totally, but again, please understand, I am not trying to start something. I Just want to know what parts you and others are not receiving.
    I do own a framed model and have had it for many years and many uses. The stock oars are Carlisle (s/p?) just like bucks and outcast or at least they are on mine. I don't consider them cheap at all, why do you?

    Contrary to the other posts, I am not sticking up for anyone, I am asking questions because I keep reading about missing parts but no one says what exactly.

    Sad truth is the Power Stroke is Daves design and as such, one can not order them from Sawyer. I think Dave should quit offering Sawyer oars, but again, it is his design. Non of the other big boat companies offer them, do they?
  14. CMustang1 _

    Posts: 24
    Ratings: +5 / 0
    I would like to spell the whole sordid mess out, but at this time my case is still ongoing. If/when my case is finished I will gladly post every document and explain everything. Like I said earlier, frame pieces are missing/wrong/damaged. Those are not accessories, but needed to use the boat. Combine that with bad quality control in the manufacturing of the boat itself and the frame, it is evident that there was a total lack of pride in craftsmanship and professionalism. I challenge you and anyone else to please show me where you have repeatedly purchased anything else in life that you were told these things and then when they did not come to fruition you just accepted it and said "oh well, at least I got part of it". I guarantee that if you bought a car with no engine(substitute oars here) that you would be screaming at the top of your lungs for it to be fixed. Or if you ordered a V-8(insert power strokes here) in a pickup and when it showed up at your house, it had a four-banger(insert aluminum oars here) you would not say, oh well. If you bought a laptop with no processor(substitute oars here) you would not stand for it. If you bought a book with no last page, you would demand that it be included. The list goes on and on. You can use this for ALL of the issues that have happened in my purchase from NFO. How many times have you taken something back because it was not what you ordered. How many times have you said something when the food you ordered was not what was put on the table. In the printed and video advertising of NFO products, there are essential items that are hyped to be the reason one should buy NFO instead of the other brands. When for years they are in print and video, you would expect and demand that they are included in your purchase. When they are not included and you are told for months that, yes you will get these items, and then after months of waiting you are told that they are no longer included even though you paid for them. Dave expects you to accept the fact that he lied to you and you are getting cheated out of the promised items. The cheap oars that were included are the cheap aluminum oars that were NOT supposed to be included and were sent anyway. If you notice, they are SOOO bad that neither Dave nor just about anyone of his supporters on video will use them. That should say volumes about them. I accept that if a person was using them on still water and not having to actually row them very far, they might be acceptable to some people. The other companies are not offering his oars, because they probably will not do business with him. I noticed recently that even his "trick" lite speed oars are not the same brand as they were a few years ago. He was using Carlisle Magic Plus. Now he is using Aqua-Bound Manta Ray. For the record, if you look on Aqua-Bound's web site, they state that the Aqua-Bound Manta Ray oars that Dave is selling are "ENTRY LEVEL" recreational kayak paddles. Dave adds a couple of extensions onto it and drills a couple of holes. Then he jacks the price up. Folks, it is a $109 kayak paddle! This is straight off of their site.

    Recreational Kayak Paddles - For the casual paddler who still desires quality!

    Aqua-Bound recreational paddles are entry-level paddles that deliver elevated performance and durability. These paddles are ideal for the recreational kayaker who enjoys day trips, fishing, shore exploring or exercise, and who looks for quality that's beyond ordinary.
    Manta Ray Fiberglass Kayak Paddle

    [IMG]
    james.jimenez likes this.
  15. james.jimenez Active Member

    Posts: 365
    South Korea
    Ratings: +159 / 0
    After busting my butt all day at work, and finding out that my mother-in-law will be staying another two weeks, I honestly could not think of a single thing that would put a smile on my face. But, behold the wounderfull comunity of fly fishers on my favorit website in the world has just turned my frown upside down, THANK YOU!!!!! LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    chromefinder likes this.
  16. pdev Salmon On the Fly

    Posts: 31
    Cowichan River BC
    Ratings: +7 / 0
    Very sorry that has been your experience. From my experience I am more than satisfied as are many others. I certainly did not try to imply that you are a "wack Job that doesn't know what you are talking about". Others may think that but not me!!!
  17. CMustang1 _

    Posts: 24
    Ratings: +5 / 0
    Glad I could help. I have 2 mother-in-laws.
  18. Blue Active Member

    Posts: 1,080
    Salt Lake City, UT
    Ratings: +80 / 0
    I too am sorry you are having such a bad time. I know the Oars are a big issue here, I was just curious as to the actual boat parts that you did not receive. Clips, foot pegs, holders? And are they still on back order so to speak?

    As for the Light Speed Oars, they are intended for frameless models. I have them and they are fantastic. Hats off to Aqua.
  19. gofish101 Member

    Posts: 47
    BC
    Ratings: +12 / 0
    I have 2 Ex-mother-in laws... :) and a Scadden Skykomish Sunrise I love with no problems.;)
  20. pdev Salmon On the Fly

    Posts: 31
    Cowichan River BC
    Ratings: +7 / 0
    M y entry level ultra lites work perfectly on a Class 3 river. I for one am not interested in your rants about Mr Scadden's company. You seem to be on a vendetta and quite frankly I will not be influenced nor should anyone else unless you prove your allegations. I will read the final outcome. If i was him I would certainly take you to court for defamation. I have experience in these things.
    Blue likes this.