Discussion in 'Fly Fishing Forum' started by miyawaki, Jun 20, 2013.
Absolutely fascinating. Based on what I read certain seasons that open after July 1st, simply would not open such as some salmon fishing and the crab season. It also sounds like the hatcheries would be completely shut down with the fish in those hatcheries left to basically die. It didn't sound like any of the fisheries currently open would be closed but even if they were it also sounded like all enforcement would be suspended minus 2 full time employees for the state. So those poaches caught on Fish Lake, yeah you can expect a lot more of that.
Hmm, this could turn into some interesting chaos if folks in the house and senate don't pull their collective heads out of their arses and find away to compromise. I'm talking both sides of the isle folks. If they don't maybe as sportsman we make a pack to unload the lot of them and start our own party. I'll run, but don't expect anything less than an open critical thinking approach to things if you vote for me, I don't pander to emotional rhetoric that well.
Wow! Where is all the tax revenue going? Down some black hole? Without any enforcement, the local poachers out here will go for it with wild abandon, and in the "free for all," they might actually wipe everything out!
Catch-22: If they lay off all the WDFW enforcement and try to close down fishing and hunting, then who will enforce the closure? WSP? do they have any presence beyond the trailhead or boat ramp?
When you look at the state's gross tax revenue, it's tempting to think waste until you spend a bit of time looking at exactly what the state does with that money.
Something like 90¢ on the dollar of the state's general fund is allocated to supporting just three required missions: education, medication and incarceration. None are optional.
The supreme court's McCleary decision requires the state to increase it's historic underfunding of K-12 education to the tune of $1B over the next budget cycle. Medicaid and other medical programs are required by law and aren't going away. Opening the gates at the state's prisons and letting the inmates go free is also not an option.
So that leaves the question of what to do with the other 10¢? The short answer is that dime is split into many small pieces to pay for everything else the state provides.
Everyone here howls at all the user fees now being charged, especially for recreational use. User fee income does not go into the general fund but rather stays with the department that generated it. Thankfully, if it weren't for those fees (and fines from citations), WDFW would have shut down a long time ago thanks to continual reductions in financial support from the general fund. Same with DNR and Parks.
As a larger question though, the current budget impasse is as much about increasing demands on a finite amount of money as it is political intransigence.
Yes, the amount of money the state spends rises every year. But it's not rising as quickly as the population is growing, so the per capita expenditure is actually falling. The state's population is expected to hit 9 million by 2020. That means a lot more kids going to school and a lot more folks using state medical programs, being sent to prison, and wearing out roads, bridges and other infrastructure.
IMHO, the long-term fix is that Washington will eventually have to implement a state income tax (just like Oregon will have to implement a sales tax). Relying solely on sales tax, B&O and property taxes to fund delivery of increasingly utilized state services is less and less viable.
Can you imagine paying 15% or 20% sales tax? Neither can I.
Partly true... it's the degree to which these are funded and the layer upon layer of bells & whistles added from the basic service that becomes the issue. Folks that choose to live outside the city pretty much need a car, but the one they drive is (or should be) the one they can afford.
The state gets enough of all of our money. They do not need more, rather they need to spend the money more wisely. For example, the dot does not need to install the "art" on the sides of over passes when they do construction. It is state law that requires them to spend a certain amount of money on public "art" for every dollar that they spend on construction. A state income tax would start like this " Okay the state income tax is 2%. A year passes...... Okay we have a budget shortfall and now we need to raise revenues so the state income tax is now 3%, than 4 than 5. I am sick and tired of the damn state saying they have cut to the bone and the need more money. It is absolutely false. They need to spend the money that they have better. The people of this state have spoke load and clear that we do NOT want a state income tax. As for them not opening some fishing seasons, that is an absolute shame and is complete bull shit. I hope everyone that will be affected from this will just vote out the sitting politician no matter what party they represent.
Tis is not so much about not having funds but about the legislature and various special interest groups (politics) unable to agree on how to spend what they have. It is bad enough that they can not get their "job" done without special sessions their inability to come to some sort of agreement put the rest of us at risk. Every incumbent should be voted out of office!
Thanks for explaining that, Kent. 90% already devoured by education, medication, and incarceration. Yikes! Leaving only 10% for everything else, and that paltry leftover getting thrown to the ravenous hounds in Oly.
It's a shame that the political system doesn't work like other jobs. If most people don't do the job they were hired for on a consistent basis they get fired. Sadly when we the people 'fire' a politician the replacement is also a career politician.
Time to move. The fishing isnt that good anyway. Love the water and mountains everywhere but this mismanagement is over the top. Where to enjoy living next?
That's one to ponder! I'm a surfer, and I have to live on the coast near some decent consistent surfing. I sort of like it here. Staircase, Quinault, and even the upper Bogey are not too far. For lake fishing, and much thanks to Jim Speaker for the invite to fish with him there, I recently "discovered" Lake Crescent.
I think Old Man Jim would enjoy some new neighbors
Bristol Bay...well, hopefully.
Try reading Fate of the States, by Meredith Whitney, she gives on interesting presentation on splurge spending by federal and state governments, their approach to solving mismanagement of budgets as well as tax payer irresponsibility.
You wouldn't want to live in a state where you can fish every month of the year. You guys is Washington are all spoiled. You catch a Steelhead every other year. And you think that is good fishing.
Besides that aren't any good paying jobs to be had here.
Well people could move to Frazer river valley in B.C. But when I checked property values and housing cost two years ago I was shocked. seems plenty of retirees have already fled the country (or Washington) and bought up all the land and sky rocketed the prices. even just a double wide prefab home was over $100,000.
You could move to Oregon but than you would have to pay taxes right out of your check! No driving out of state to buy your big items and you would pay more in taxes.
Also many of you would join the "WILD FISH CRUSADE" And try and wipe-out our brood stock and hatchery programs so the fishing would suck just like it does in many of your S.W. Washington rivers right now and you'd be right back where you started in Washington - only you would be paying more taxes.
You could always move to Idaho, but than you would lobby to destroy all the hatchery fish that swim up the Columbia by the hundreds of thousands.
It amazes me that I have heard of no riots or picketing yet? if this happened in Oregon - Salem would come to a dead stop with the people who would flock to the capital in rebellion. Even when we were fighting against the netters 100's of people showed with boats in tow to block much of Salem with protests, from guides to the normal Joe, they made there presence known. Living in Portland it amazes me how many people from Washington drive across the bridge to get items so they do not have to pay taxes, but this is what the "SMART PEOPLE DO" heck I just read a thread from a guy from fife on a different forum wanting to know where the best prices are in Portland since he was headed this way he could spend a bunch and not pay sales tax.
When I fish in Washington I don't stop in Oregon for my supplies, I always get food and other items for the trip at small stores in the area I fish and make a point to support the area. from the store in Toutle when I fish coldwater to four corners (and the old fishing shop) when I used to fish the East fork, to Stevenson and Home Valley. when I fish Drano and white salmon and many other Columbia back waters for salmon and steel.
But than I'm just a mouth breathing - knuckle dragging - toothless heathen. I buy the discovery pass and don't complain, I have purchased an out of state Washington fishing lic. since the 80's (every year) when I could buy my gear in Oregon for some reason I always buy gear from a local store out of Stevenson or in Home Valley because I feel i should and pay the sale tax to support Washington when I am fishing in your state. heck me and a friend rented a motel last summer in Stevenson when we could of just drove across to Cascade locks and not pay the taxes. We could of bought all our cures and bait in Oregon but we opted to buy it at home valley, over a $100 of stuff and payed the taxes. I feel if I am going to fish in Washington I should support your state. thanks to Idaho (and some upper Columbia Washington fisheries) Drano, White salmon, and many other areas are full of silvers - Chinook - and steelhead swinging in for the cool waters during there Columbia up-stream migration almost all summer long. These are some of the biggest concentrations of fish in the lower 48 and i feel fortunate to be able to fish them so I try and do my part.
But then I'm not very SMART!
Fish stocks with no commercial value seem to do just fine... just imagine what our steelhead and salmon fisheries would look like if they had no price tag hanging off their tail.
I suggest all the disgruntled Washingtonians move to CA... payback time... in more ways than one!
Been feeling this way for awhile now myself, time for a new location.