Fishing with flies, but not fly fishing

Discussion in 'Fly Fishing Forum' started by kmudgn, Apr 13, 2014.

  1. hydrological

    hydrological beads are NOT flies and snagging is just ghetto

    actually more effective methods often equal higher mortality, tho often because more fish are handled and therefore mishandled. tnt doesnt require any handling to have high mortality. no bait, no boat fishing, and no addded junk on the leader is already in play in oregon. barbless hooks even more widespread. hopefully these restrictions will continue to be popular. look at the crowds the deschutes draws.
     
    sopflyfisher likes this.
  2. Irafly

    Irafly Active Member


    Nope. Just if there is honestly so much concern for the fish that they regulate a fishery to the point of making it almost impossible to actually catch a fish, why not shut the fishery down? If the fishery is regulated to protect fish, then shut it down, that is simply the best way to protect the fish. I support less opportunity to catch fish in this manner, and self impose my own limitations by staying away from fisheries with critical issues. If you are really concerned about the well being of the fish, don't fish for them. I just don't agree with the somewhat hypocritical attitude that a fishery should be traditionally limiting to a method that only some prefer to fish under the guise of "protecting a fishery". Hopefully people who believe in those fisheries in order to protect fish feel monstrously guilty each time they hook a fish.
     
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  3. kmudgn

    kmudgn Member

    Been away a few days, unfortunately not fishing. I am glad to see that the thread is evolving into a learned discussion of fishing techniques and equipment. Barbless hooks, C&R, and minimal handling of fish are the key to keeping the sport alive (along with the fish). I have no moral objection to taking a few fish for dinner, but those old black and white camp pictures you have seen with guys holding a stringer of 50 trout are one of the reasons we (at least in the East) have to rely on stocked fish.

    I do want to reply to one response that was made where the poster had a picture of classic salmon flies. He indicated that somehow these flies would not be ok with traditional fishers. How wrong that is! I tie a number of those flies. They are difficult and very time consuming to get right. When you lose one, it is a real loss. The reason they are classic flies is that they have been tied for a hundred years and they work.

    I suspect the poster would not know Carrie Stevens from Cat Stevens, or a Mickey Finn from Mickey Roarke or he would not have made those remarks. The fact is that those classic flies must really be fished well. The angler must know depth, retrieve speed, water and sky conditions, and what bait fish are around to be successful. You cant just hang them off a bobber!
     
  4. Gotcha. I don't disagree with you on that point.

    I suppose I don't have a problem with having a limited number of areas where the regs have nothing to do with protecting fish and everything to of with providing a particular experience to those who decide to participate. The Fall River and the "holy water" section of the rogue come to mind. There are specific regs in place there but the fish are mostly hatchery so they don't "need" protection. FWIW, I think you could indicator nymph both stretches but that's beside the point.

    I feel the same about the fly water stretch of the NU. Maybe those regs were put I n place under the guise of protecting the fish (I'm not sure) but who cares, it's one 30 mile stretch of all the steelhead water in Oregon and it's not exactly in a metro area. If I was a nympher and some one gave me a hard time while on a metro or coastal river I'd tell them to suck a dick, fill up their gas tank and put steamboat lodge in the nav system.
     
  5. It seems the usefulness of the thread is inversely related to your participation in it. Hopefully your rivers are fishable soon.
     
  6. Wayne Kohan

    Wayne Kohan fish-ician

    For once, will someone explain to me why staring at a dry fly all day is different than staring at an indicator all day?

    It is the Zen aspect of fly fishing I get into, and part of that is the zen of figuring out what my nymph is doing below my indicator and when Mr trout comes up an kisses it. That takes much more Zen than the visual of the dry fly slurp. I do love to fish dries, prefer it at times actually, but not afraid to go where the trout are and enjoy the thrill of the non-visual take as much. But if you think it is less skillful, you are just stupid. And I am sure I will not change your mind on that. Just because fish hit a dry fly less often, does not make it more skillful.

    Wayne
     
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  7. Wayne Kohan

    Wayne Kohan fish-ician

    Sorry about that last post. I drank an extra glass of ale tonight, and I let my guard down. But since it was not scotch that passed my lips, I guess thats not real flyfishing either.

    Wayne
     
    underachiever and chewydog like this.
  8. Chris Bellows

    Chris Bellows The Thought Train

    what about the lack of etiquette that was the cause of the regulations on the umpqua to begin with? what is wrong with a tradition of rotating through the water so everyone has a chance to fish?

    nymphers can blame traditionalists all they want for these regs (or the closing of the deer creek pool in the 90's) but none of these issues existed before the nympher's behavior caused them. whether it is lack of rotation or lack of restraint on staged fish, the only ones to blame are those who behaved greedily and refused to share the water. let's not forget that both of these examples happened on waters with a long history of enjoying fly fishing only regulations and harmonious sharing of the resource through rotation that allowed everyone to fish the water. that all changed when a few greedy fishermen decided their catch rates were more important than everyone else's ability to access the fishery.

    since you prefer indicator fishing you should be upset with these nymphers just as much because their greedy behavior means you can no longer fish these waters with your preferred method even though you would likely not be a hole hog and restrict other anglers access to water all day.
     
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  9. i really like the skwala hatch with a little san juan dropper.

    Winston b2x 9'6 5wt with a centerpin, i made sure to by high vis braid to look like im fly fishing bobberboy.jpg
     
  10. psycho

    psycho Active Member

    I am a firm believer that when fish numbers are a concern that the only fishing that should be allowed is with the hook cut off at the bend. You then count the takes, dry fly fishermen can count the swirls by their fly, the under water guys can count the subtle twitches that they feel, throw some barbells on the fly or lots of lead wrap and the underwater guys will REALLY whip the dry fly fishers butt:D .
     
    Irafly likes this.
  11. golfman44

    golfman44 Coho Queen

    27 pages of a bobber thread and I missed all the action?? My forum game is slipping.

    I guess I'm just distracted by my bobber dropping.
     
  12. Mark Kulikov

    Mark Kulikov Active Member

    Yup. This one put the gun thread to shame.

    Sent from my little square phone thingy...
     
  13. hydrological

    hydrological beads are NOT flies and snagging is just ghetto

    the key is to cut right behind the barb. you can still connect on every fish if you set the hook. its amazing how many times you can connect in a day when you dont waste time landing a fish. cant imagine this method is much fun blind fishing under a bobber.
     
  14. Drifter

    Drifter Active Member

    Let me see, you Washingtonians still have =

    Night fishing for steelhead! "snaggers dream"
    Native american nets across your rivers.
    Take of wild steelhead for the last 20 years and more. You have just started addressing this issue!
    And all the bait and gear guides slaughtering fish.

    Yet the biggest problem is nymph and indicator fisherman!
    Oh and lets not forget the crying bank maggots biggest bitch about a tradition here in the pacific northwest = white water boats and fishing!

    Since most on the forum live in a city with 5 to 7 million people in it to vote against and still bang their heads against the wall and attack any technique that they don't use, Don't you think it would make more sense to attack the worst problems first!

    Still allowing night fishing for steelhead is ---- well ---- pathetic!

    I suggest you move!
     
    FinLuver likes this.
  15. Randall Clark

    Randall Clark Active Member

    the problem here though is that someone is bound to oppose it because now you're harassing still causing them to expend extra energy with no benefit. At least if you're throwing bait, and the fish gets away, he gets a meal out of it.
     
  16. psycho

    psycho Active Member

    Damn I like this forum, education, scientific facts, sarcasm and humor all in one read.:D
     
  17. Flyborg

    Flyborg Active Member

    You'll see way more snagging during the day then you ever do at night.

    And snagging steelhead is hard work . There's just not enough of them for it to be a useful method. If you've ever visited the steelhead night fishery on the North Fork of the Lewis, you'll rarely see steelhead getting fouled, it's a surprisingly legitimate fishery. Now salmon are a different story, but again, you'll see way more snagged during the day then at night. I say ban day fishing.
     
    Nick Clayton likes this.
  18. Randall Clark

    Randall Clark Active Member



    Earthworms and mealworms contain sulfites?


    I prefer to fish fresh eggs straight from the freshly gutted native chromer...so no sulfites...much better for the fish.
     
  19. Irafly

    Irafly Active Member


    Then address the lack of etiquette by changing the etiquette rules not by penalizing an entire group of people who happen to enjoy the sport the way that "SOME" not "ALL" of the trouble makers belonged to. And from what I heard it wasn't just indicator nymphers who caused all the problems, some swingers caused many of the rifts as well.
     
  20. GAT

    GAT Active Member

    It was an interesting proposal. I was at the regs commission meeting attempting to make Davis Lake strictly C&R for all trout (I didn't win, they went with a slot limit that still allows the kill of trout -- slot limits really don't save fish because some trout are never allowed to live within that slot limit... so they never grow trophy size).

    The old guys who where pushing the NFU proposal certainly had the political power... most of those on the commission and ODF&W knew one fellow who was the spokesman for the proposal.

    The ODF&W zone biologist for the fishery is always asked by the commission as to their stance on the proposal. In regards to the NFU proposal, the biologist said it was a social proposal and had no effect on the steelhead one way or the other so they didn't support nor reject it. They left it up to the commission.

    So it passed.

    The ODF&W thought the proposal was a bit on the humorous side. I heard of couple of them talking about it and they wondered if the next proposal would include what manner of tweed attire required to fish the NFU. They figured it was a battle between fly anglers so they honestly didn't care.

    At one time, the North Fork of the Siletz had a regulation that limited fishing to fly only during a specific period of time. I was thinking about making a proposal that required the use of an indicator when flyfishing that section of the river and making it illegal not to use an indicator or weighted flies :D

    BTW: I don't use an indicator when steelhead flyfishing but I do use weighted nymphs and two flies. I also don't fish the North Fork of the Umpqua so the entire matter was silly to me and honestly, I don't care about the elitist regulations as long as the purists don't try to change the flyfishing only regulations for other flyfishing only fisheries in Oregon. If they do, I will fight them.
     
    Irafly likes this.