Help support Fish Not Gold eliminate the damage caused by Hobby Miners to our streams

Discussion in 'Fly Fishing Forum' started by Fish Not Gold, May 22, 2014.

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  1. Brian White Recovering Bugmeister/Troutlandish?

    Kent, your posts on this thread are rational, logical and well thought out. You plainly have no place discussing politics in the USA of 2014. Don't you know civil, fact-based discourse is on life support? Come on man - much more sizzle, much less steak is the name of the game!
  2. Checkthisout Member

    Posts: 75
    Redmond, Washington
    Ratings: +13 / 0
    You really want to eliminate hobby mining from our streams? I've never even seen a dredge in operation and you're claiming this petty amount of activity is hurting fish?

    You're completely bonkers!

    This rides right up there with a gentleman who told me that powerboats create a huge bank erosion problem on the Skykomish River.

    There is no turning inward and looking at thyself before chastising others anymore. Flyfisherman and Fisherman in general damage the fish and fish habitat way more than any of the petty dredging in this state.

    Whatever impact it has on fish (probably none) is worth the economic benefits. Just because an activity stirs up the river bottom, doesn't mean it's harming fish. I bet the dredge stirs up nutrients in the sediment and actually helps rear small fish.
  3. Klickrolf Active Member

    Posts: 595
    Klickitat, Washington
    Ratings: +165 / 0
    Hey Checkthisout, everything would be fine if the mini-suction dredgers had to pay for their gold before they found it, just like the fisherman has to pay for his fish before he hooks it.

    It's just one interest group hating another because they think they've ID'd an inequity.
    bennysbuddy likes this.
  4. Kim McDonald member

    Posts: 289
    Seattle, WA
    Ratings: +138 / 0
    Icanfly (aka Matt):

    Take a look at what outdoor writer Ted Williams has to say:

    http://www.hcn.org/wotr/suckers-for-gold-recreational-dredgers-can-wreck-stream-beds

    And that is the point, with so little gold, the miners hammer the heck out of fragile headwater streams. Seriously, if you haven't ever seen this, spend a weekend in July up in Blewett Pass. Or the Similkameen, or along Ruby, Bonita, Slate in the North Cascades. Or the Sultan. You'll be surprised.

    Kim
  5. KerryS Ignored Member

    Posts: 6,750
    Sedro Woolley, WA, USA.
    Ratings: +1,775 / 0
    Even after stating having never seen a dredge in operation you say it is a petty amount? This is the best statement of the entire thread. Amazing. By the way I have operated a power dredge before and there is nothing "petty" about them.
  6. Checkthisout Member

    Posts: 75
    Redmond, Washington
    Ratings: +13 / 0
    So you're a former hobby miner turned anti-dredging advocate?

    Interesting.

    What would make this more interesting are pictures of current mining operations (no cheating, they have to be in Washington) and the absolute destruction of fish they have caused.

    You know, pictures of salmon stuck in suction hoses, little smolts fighting for their lives against the current of the intake, little busted open bits of egg sack.
  7. KerryS Ignored Member

    Posts: 6,750
    Sedro Woolley, WA, USA.
    Ratings: +1,775 / 0
    Nope, not a hobby miner.

    Do you really believe that the damage caused by dredging is actually sucking up fish? Really? Wow.
  8. Hillbilly Redneck wishin i was fishin

    Posts: 431
    Whitehorse Mt.
    Ratings: +104 / 0
  9. Kim McDonald member

    Posts: 289
    Seattle, WA
    Ratings: +138 / 0
    Checkthisout:

    I have lots of pictures of habitat destruction caused by hobby miners. It's not just about individual fish, but about the habitat. In addition to the dredging, many hobby miners, as we have said repeatedly, "occupy" (their word, not mine) their mining sites. These are undeveloped (primitive) camping sites right along rivers and streams. The miners occupy them for weeks at a time (in fact, last August, I witnessed a group of miners from a mining club in central Washington, stay at a site for over 3 weeks). No bathroom facilities, no garbage, etc. Along a small headwater stream. The miners did leave an "improvement," however:
    IMG_0779.jpg


    Kim
  10. Brian White Recovering Bugmeister/Troutlandish?

    Hi Kim,

    For some reason not able to view the image (pic) you posted.
  11. Derek Young 2011 Orvis Endorsed Fly Fishing Guide Of The Year

    Posts: 2,692
    Snoqualmie, WA
    Ratings: +869 / 1
    Picture is there. Nothing dumber than leaving waste behind on the water with your name on it.
    Kim McDonald likes this.
  12. Dustin Bootz Team Nate

    Posts: 50
    Snohomish
    Ratings: +13 / 0
    We sucked up a bunch of brook trout dredging on the upper Yakima last season. Besides that I haven't seen any dead trout.
  13. bennysbuddy the sultan of swing

    Posts: 2,350
    m-ville
    Ratings: +733 / 0
    I was up above the town of liberty gold panning this last weekend, My mining activity seemed less harmful than the campers washing thier dishes in the creek or the hoards of offroaders that were driving across the creek in every type of big tired vehicle know to man. Hate to see people trying to outlaw somebody elses form of recreation as maybe fishing is the next on the agenda..
    freestoneangler likes this.
  14. Derek Young 2011 Orvis Endorsed Fly Fishing Guide Of The Year

    Posts: 2,692
    Snoqualmie, WA
    Ratings: +869 / 1
    Now that you've identified the reasons why disrupting habitat isn't good for fisheries...are you going to continue thinking that your activity is less worse than other's therefore justifying it? What kind of logic is that?
  15. Dustin Bootz Team Nate

    Posts: 50
    Snohomish
    Ratings: +13 / 0
    Sucking up the river bottom is good for fish, it makes more habitat. "Fishing holes" not fishing sandbars.
  16. Icanfly aka Matt

    Posts: 76
    Seattle, WA
    Ratings: +13 / 0
    I agree Kent. Hobby mining should certainly be regulated and if a resource is affected by the activity these individuals should certainly pay a fee to maintain the resource. I also agree with you Kim, there are probably places in this state that are overly abused and should be further restricted. However, the title of this post includes the words, "eliminate the damage caused by Hobby Miners to our streams". That sounds pretty cut and dry to me. My point is that you might be better served by easing up a bit and outwardly acknowledging the fact that we cause damage as well. I spoke at an Arizona forest service "town hall" hearing over a proposed copper mine in the Tucson area a couple years ago. I was opposed, and most of the audience was for the construction. The only positive response from anyone in the audience that I got was a man that told me, "I disagreed with just about everything you said up there, but I respect the fact that you admitted that you need and use copper too", as a resource. I like to think that maybe my opinion on the matter as at least considered a bit more when I tried to relate to the opposing view point a bit more. I dunno. Anyway, no more comments from me. Good luck with your efforts!
    Kent Lufkin likes this.
  17. Ron Larson New Member

    Posts: 16
    Ratings: +0 / 0
  18. KerryS Ignored Member

    Posts: 6,750
    Sedro Woolley, WA, USA.
    Ratings: +1,775 / 0
    Panning is just a wee bit different than running a gas powered dredge sucking yards of material off the stream bottom. How much material can you fit into your gold pan? A couple of ounces maybe? How much stream bottom do you displace while you are panning? A couple of cubic feet in a day at the high end and likely not all in the same spot. Hardly a decent comparison.
  19. Kim McDonald member

    Posts: 289
    Seattle, WA
    Ratings: +138 / 0
    Icanfly:

    Well, certainly that is true. And in Washington State, on the rivers that WDFW/NMFS-NOAA believes fishing of any kind can impact species that are listed under the ESA, we are banned from fishing. Upper Methow, Wenatchee, White River, Nason, etc. Yet, the miners can suction dredge those streams. I am all for not fishing in streams and rivers where our presence and the infrequent times C & R can cause mortality, are closed to fishing. And I am all for any work our community can do to help habitat. Because this is what it is really about. It's not the incidental fish mortality, it's about the habitat. I don't take a winch and remove a stump or root wad from a river because it's in the way of my fishing. I don't pry bar a boulder. I don't remove vegetation from the stream side in order to garner better access. I don't camp for weeks on end next to a river without any facilities. I also don't suck up the river bottom when I am fishing. We live, Icanfly, in the land of endangered fish. Development, roads, logging, overfishing, and a zillion other reasons have destroyed fish and their habitat. We are now spending hundreds of millions of our taxpaying money to restore streams and rivers, which in an instant, can be trashed by the hobby mining clubs. So I guess I think it's about time the fishing community begins to address the habitat issue. And if the first step is making sure people out for weeks at a time sucking up our rivers for their hobby begin to abide by some reasonable regulations that protect fish and habitat, then that is a good start. California, Idaho, Oregon, Maine, Tennessee are on board...Washington should be.

    Kim
  20. bennysbuddy the sultan of swing

    Posts: 2,350
    m-ville
    Ratings: +733 / 0
    The logic is the same on this topic as people think on other issues: I can't possibly be part of the problem, it's that other guy/Group. There would be no problem at all if people would all stop fishing and stay home and go to work to fund all these fine orginazations trying to save earth from mankind. So far nobodys doing that 100% !
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