Help support Fish Not Gold eliminate the damage caused by Hobby Miners to our streams

Discussion in 'Fly Fishing Forum' started by Fish Not Gold, May 22, 2014.

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  1. smelt047

    smelt047 New Member

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    The hobby miners could pursue their pastime by panning for gold or dredging in streams without ESA-listed fish. But most are fanatically opposed to any change to the existing, highly permissive regulations in Washington, which they already consider an imposition on their God-given freedom. After debating the issue with some of the most vocal miners, I see no basis for a "reasonable compromise." Kim and Kent are only being realistic.
     
  2. KerryS

    KerryS Ignored Member

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    Following the law is not a resonable position to take. Another statement that rivals the best one you made about never seeing a dredge in action.
     
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  3. Kim McDonald

    Kim McDonald member

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    Wrong. We want suction dredge mining out of streams and rivers listed as critical habitat.

    You want to pan for gold, that is just fine. But breaking the law by not filing...not so good.

    Kim
     
  4. smc

    smc Active Member

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    Well now. This is a fine how-do-you-do. I was fine just reading along and snacking on my pop corn like I usually do, and then Mr. checkthisout goes and says that word. Ilk. Sounds like a derogatory term, Ilk, the way CTO uses it. And I suppose it might be if used to categorize those who think:

    They have a right to damage and/or destroy public property.
    They have a right to free use of public property that others must pay to use.
    They have a right to use mechanical dredging equipment in streambeds that are so environmentally sensitive that they are closed to all fishing activity.

    Well, I suppose that those of a certain "ilk" might expect that those so-called rights are "reasonable".

    Then there are others - CheckThisOut - of a certain ilk, that see through your tongue in cheek obfuscations and outright lies. Maybe you're a shill for big mining, a refugee from the Pebble Mine debacle come to lick your wounds on the backs of Washington State's last steelhead. I don't know. But I do know that you are of a certain "ilk".

    So am I, now that I think about it. I've got nothing against recreational panning. It's a great way to get out and get close to God & Country, Friends and Family. But: All streams sensitive enough to be closed to fishing should also be closed to any and all mining. Period. All other mining activity that involves mechanical equipment on open waters in Washington State should be subject to a comprehensive permitting process, with fees adequate to insure monitoring and enforcement of active claims. Because God knows, there are those of a certain ilk that feel they are above the laws of man and God.
     
  5. timlind

    timlind Member

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    Now that I read this entire thread, I think I will re-read the "pram" thread
     
  6. wik

    wik Member

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  7. Kent Lufkin

    Kent Lufkin Remember when you could remember everything?

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  8. Kent Lufkin

    Kent Lufkin Remember when you could remember everything?

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    Why yes, that's exactly what we want. Just like California, Oregon, Idaho, Tennessee and Maine. The sooner you and those of your ilk eventually understand that there's sound reasons for doing so that are not simply punative or mean-spirited, the better.

    K
     
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  9. Kent Lufkin

    Kent Lufkin Remember when you could remember everything?

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    Hmmm, let's see if I understand your position correctly.

    You disagree with the OP because the asshole that wrote it made your hackles stand up?

    You've never run a suction dredge but yet you insist the damage they cause is petty?

    You've decided that the hobby miners are being targeted unfairly so you've become deaf to any suggestions to the contrary?

    Have I missed anything else?

    The gist of your entire contribution to this thread reminds me of an old saying, 'Don't confuse me with facts, I already know what I want to believe.'

    K
     
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  10. Ron Larson

    Ron Larson New Member

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    Kim, I could pick apart and debunk most of what you purport as truth, I know you know better!
    Kent, your arrogance and condescension are nauseating.

    Kim and Kent, did you two ever sit down and discuss your past lives with each other prior to starting this campaign? I would have paid big dollars to hear that conversation, but somehow I'm not sure you two even know each other that well... you really should have this discussion, I think it matters very much because it cuts to the core of your credibility! It certainly influenced my opinion of you two very early on.
    Everyone has skeletons in the closet, however, with you two I find it absolutely stunning that you would put yourselves up as public figures!!!

    Kent, you don't need to worry about others paying their fair share, most of us do just fine thank you!
    The American way is to avoid paying fees or taxes when it can be done so legally.
    It must be nerve racking and scary, huh? The lengths some people will go to just amazes me!

    Kim, you are truly one scary person, haven't you caused enough harm?
    What a life you've lead, very interesting stuff - and public record also, how convenient!
    Hell, one your victims even wasted a portion of his life to include you in his book, Whoopee!
    Have you read it?
    Kim, it isn't a matter of people getting close to the truth anymore, so you can stop worrying about that now!

    BTW, these are not allegations, just cold hard facts.

    Have a nice weekend Kim and Kent...
    I'm going to dredge for gold while I still can legally :)
     
  11. KerryS

    KerryS Ignored Member

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    Are you kidding? You come on here with a post like this and think you will gain any support or even simple respect? You must be delusional. Your innuendo and passive aggressive threats are pure bullshit. Your post is one of the most pathetic ever put on this board. I now know that I will support any and all efforts to stop dredging in sensitive areas. Nice work Ron.
     
  12. Pat Lat

    Pat Lat Mad Flyentist

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    You're an idiot if you think anyone buys your attempt at mudslinging which includes neither dirt, nor water.
     
  13. Ron Larson

    Ron Larson New Member

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    I'm not an idiot or kidding, with all due respect and I mean that , they know exactly what I mean... It's against the terms of service here to say what I really want to say :)
    I wasn't writing to anyone other than those two, so if you want to think anything about me, that's your right and I'm fine with that!
    It's still legal to do what I do, and I'm not looking for support here, I'd be an idiot to expect that ;)
    When someone makes you the poster child of their anti-whatever campaign you stick up for yourself and your beliefs...
    That's called being a man in my circles.
     
  14. Pat Lat

    Pat Lat Mad Flyentist

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    Fixed it for you, oh ya...;)
     
  15. Mark Moore

    Mark Moore Just a Member

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    In the south, where I grew up, there is a saying about wrestling with a pig.....
     
  16. KerryS

    KerryS Ignored Member

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    Where I come from the last thing you would be called is a man. A coward is more fitting. You post was full of lies, innuendo, and veiled threats. Cowardly isn't even a fitting description. You are lower than that. If your post was meant for only Kim and Kent you could have simply sent personal messages but you choose to post your cowardly threats for everyone to see. Nice work.
     
  17. KerryS

    KerryS Ignored Member

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    I had to look it up...funny.
     
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  18. smelt047

    smelt047 New Member

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    Now you've convinced me that Kim and Kent are Extremely Bad People. Actually, Ron, you've hit escape velocity as you rocket past Pluto and leave our solar system.

    More seriously, I know that mud-slinging and character assassination are "go-to" plays in the Hobby Miner Playbook, but they are laughably lame when you put them in print. You guys just wind up further undermining your own dwindling credibility by launching ridiculous personal attacks against your opponents.
     
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  19. Checkthisout

    Checkthisout Member

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    He's not a coward, he's just frustrated at the lack of empathy you have.

    Nonetheless you're just some guy on the internet and don't and can't make an impact on his hobby but you're choosing to make yourself a lightning rod so obviously you knew you were going to get struck.

    Fishing kills more fish every year than hobby mining. Fish that are lethally hooked or fought until they die, redds trampled by bankies etc.

    PETA has an anti-fishing campaign called "Fishing Hurts". They say the same things and act the same way the "Fish not Gold" people act.
     
  20. Klickrolf

    Klickrolf Active Member

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    An observation: In the mid 1990's I saw a few of these suction dredges on the Yakima at Umptanum (sp?). Talked to the guys and they were finding gold, I saw it. It's pretty big/wide water in this area and clearly not spawning water so I'm pretty sure they weren't sucking up eggs or alevin. Some gravel was sucked up and flowed a little downstream as did finer sediment, just like when I wade.

    I'm not a hobby suction dredger but I'm pretty sure I could figure out that the best places to find gold probably aren't the areas that salmonids use to spawn because these areas are too mobile so gold won't settle there, it'll keep moving.

    The trouble today is most science is funded by the government and there's always something they want you to believe, it doesn't have anything to do with science. We all know annual floods rearrange substrate a thousand times more than a hobby suction dredger could do in a lifetime. Yet, the suction dredger is causing the harm?

    Here's more of what you won't like:
    The ESA is one of the worst laws ever passed in the USA. It forces landowners who may have targeted ESA species on their land to try to get rid of them. We should be paying these landowners to provide habitat for endangered species, not attempting to make their land useless. Eliminating the species from their property becomes their only option. This goes on and on...the EPA should be helping companies/corps come up with ways to make projects work instead of figuring out how to shut it down. Our governments, both state and federal, are not working to improve our lives, they are working on making us slaves. Think about it!
     
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