Help support Fish Not Gold eliminate the damage caused by Hobby Miners to our streams

Discussion in 'Fly Fishing Forum' started by Fish Not Gold, May 22, 2014.

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  1. Kim McDonald member

    Posts: 289
    Seattle, WA
    Ratings: +138 / 0
    Kent is right. The big elephant in the room, here, is the Endangered Species Act. It requires the US Forest Service to consult with the wildlife agencies when they allow hobby mining on Forest Service land (public land). That consultation is triggered by the miners following federal law which requires them to notify the USFS when/where they are mining. The miners are now being advised by a lawyer in Portland, to not file the required Notices of Intent. It would be like fishermen being told to not submit our catch cards because it might trigger some action by the federal government, like shutting down a stream. In addition, WDFW has told miners, through some of their HPA permits, that they are mining in areas with endangered species and that they "shall" notify the appropriate federal agencies. WDFW even gives them the names, telephone numbers, and emails. Yet no one in the agencies are contacted.

    If being outside with their families, looking for the few flakes of gold, is truly a hobby, then there are plenty of other ways to mine for gold that minimize impacts to habitat and have time with families and friends.


    Kim
    smelt047 and Gary Knowels like this.
  2. Checkthisout Member

    Posts: 75
    Redmond, Washington
    Ratings: +13 / 0
    And this is why they won't file anything and won't talk with you.

    You want their hobby banned completely. That's not a reasonable position to take. All you leave them with is time to enjoy their hobby as much as they can until you and your ilk are successful at outlawing the activity.
  3. smelt047 New Member

    Posts: 20
    Seattle, WA
    Ratings: +20 / 0
    The hobby miners could pursue their pastime by panning for gold or dredging in streams without ESA-listed fish. But most are fanatically opposed to any change to the existing, highly permissive regulations in Washington, which they already consider an imposition on their God-given freedom. After debating the issue with some of the most vocal miners, I see no basis for a "reasonable compromise." Kim and Kent are only being realistic.
  4. KerryS Ignored Member

    Posts: 6,706
    Sedro Woolley, WA, USA.
    Ratings: +1,748 / 0
    Following the law is not a resonable position to take. Another statement that rivals the best one you made about never seeing a dredge in action.
    Dan Nelson and Kim McDonald like this.
  5. Kim McDonald member

    Posts: 289
    Seattle, WA
    Ratings: +138 / 0
    Wrong. We want suction dredge mining out of streams and rivers listed as critical habitat.

    You want to pan for gold, that is just fine. But breaking the law by not filing...not so good.

    Kim
  6. smc Active Member

    Posts: 374
    Up River
    Ratings: +25 / 0
    Well now. This is a fine how-do-you-do. I was fine just reading along and snacking on my pop corn like I usually do, and then Mr. checkthisout goes and says that word. Ilk. Sounds like a derogatory term, Ilk, the way CTO uses it. And I suppose it might be if used to categorize those who think:

    They have a right to damage and/or destroy public property.
    They have a right to free use of public property that others must pay to use.
    They have a right to use mechanical dredging equipment in streambeds that are so environmentally sensitive that they are closed to all fishing activity.

    Well, I suppose that those of a certain "ilk" might expect that those so-called rights are "reasonable".

    Then there are others - CheckThisOut - of a certain ilk, that see through your tongue in cheek obfuscations and outright lies. Maybe you're a shill for big mining, a refugee from the Pebble Mine debacle come to lick your wounds on the backs of Washington State's last steelhead. I don't know. But I do know that you are of a certain "ilk".

    So am I, now that I think about it. I've got nothing against recreational panning. It's a great way to get out and get close to God & Country, Friends and Family. But: All streams sensitive enough to be closed to fishing should also be closed to any and all mining. Period. All other mining activity that involves mechanical equipment on open waters in Washington State should be subject to a comprehensive permitting process, with fees adequate to insure monitoring and enforcement of active claims. Because God knows, there are those of a certain ilk that feel they are above the laws of man and God.
  7. timlind Member

    Posts: 46
    bend, or
    Ratings: +41 / 0
    Now that I read this entire thread, I think I will re-read the "pram" thread
  8. wik Member

    Posts: 107
    renton
    Ratings: +6 / 0
  9. Kent Lufkin Remember when you could remember everything?

    Posts: 7,136
    Not sure
    Ratings: +1,225 / 0
  10. Kent Lufkin Remember when you could remember everything?

    Posts: 7,136
    Not sure
    Ratings: +1,225 / 0
    Why yes, that's exactly what we want. Just like California, Oregon, Idaho, Tennessee and Maine. The sooner you and those of your ilk eventually understand that there's sound reasons for doing so that are not simply punative or mean-spirited, the better.

    K
    Salmo_g, smelt047 and Kim McDonald like this.
  11. Kent Lufkin Remember when you could remember everything?

    Posts: 7,136
    Not sure
    Ratings: +1,225 / 0
    Hmmm, let's see if I understand your position correctly.

    You disagree with the OP because the asshole that wrote it made your hackles stand up?

    You've never run a suction dredge but yet you insist the damage they cause is petty?

    You've decided that the hobby miners are being targeted unfairly so you've become deaf to any suggestions to the contrary?

    Have I missed anything else?

    The gist of your entire contribution to this thread reminds me of an old saying, 'Don't confuse me with facts, I already know what I want to believe.'

    K
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  12. Ron Larson New Member

    Posts: 16
    Ratings: +0 / 0
    Kim, I could pick apart and debunk most of what you purport as truth, I know you know better!
    Kent, your arrogance and condescension are nauseating.

    Kim and Kent, did you two ever sit down and discuss your past lives with each other prior to starting this campaign? I would have paid big dollars to hear that conversation, but somehow I'm not sure you two even know each other that well... you really should have this discussion, I think it matters very much because it cuts to the core of your credibility! It certainly influenced my opinion of you two very early on.
    Everyone has skeletons in the closet, however, with you two I find it absolutely stunning that you would put yourselves up as public figures!!!

    Kent, you don't need to worry about others paying their fair share, most of us do just fine thank you!
    The American way is to avoid paying fees or taxes when it can be done so legally.
    It must be nerve racking and scary, huh? The lengths some people will go to just amazes me!

    Kim, you are truly one scary person, haven't you caused enough harm?
    What a life you've lead, very interesting stuff - and public record also, how convenient!
    Hell, one your victims even wasted a portion of his life to include you in his book, Whoopee!
    Have you read it?
    Kim, it isn't a matter of people getting close to the truth anymore, so you can stop worrying about that now!

    BTW, these are not allegations, just cold hard facts.

    Have a nice weekend Kim and Kent...
    I'm going to dredge for gold while I still can legally :)
  13. KerryS Ignored Member

    Posts: 6,706
    Sedro Woolley, WA, USA.
    Ratings: +1,748 / 0
    Are you kidding? You come on here with a post like this and think you will gain any support or even simple respect? You must be delusional. Your innuendo and passive aggressive threats are pure bullshit. Your post is one of the most pathetic ever put on this board. I now know that I will support any and all efforts to stop dredging in sensitive areas. Nice work Ron.
  14. Pat Lat Mad Flyentist

    Posts: 1,043
    Des Moines
    Ratings: +767 / 0
    You're an idiot if you think anyone buys your attempt at mudslinging which includes neither dirt, nor water.
  15. Ron Larson New Member

    Posts: 16
    Ratings: +0 / 0
    I'm not an idiot or kidding, with all due respect and I mean that , they know exactly what I mean... It's against the terms of service here to say what I really want to say :)
    I wasn't writing to anyone other than those two, so if you want to think anything about me, that's your right and I'm fine with that!
    It's still legal to do what I do, and I'm not looking for support here, I'd be an idiot to expect that ;)
    When someone makes you the poster child of their anti-whatever campaign you stick up for yourself and your beliefs...
    That's called being a man in my circles.
  16. Pat Lat Mad Flyentist

    Posts: 1,043
    Des Moines
    Ratings: +767 / 0
    Fixed it for you, oh ya...;)
  17. Mark Moore Just a Member

    Posts: 734
    Vancouver, Wa.
    Ratings: +66 / 0
    In the south, where I grew up, there is a saying about wrestling with a pig.....
  18. KerryS Ignored Member

    Posts: 6,706
    Sedro Woolley, WA, USA.
    Ratings: +1,748 / 0
    Where I come from the last thing you would be called is a man. A coward is more fitting. You post was full of lies, innuendo, and veiled threats. Cowardly isn't even a fitting description. You are lower than that. If your post was meant for only Kim and Kent you could have simply sent personal messages but you choose to post your cowardly threats for everyone to see. Nice work.
  19. KerryS Ignored Member

    Posts: 6,706
    Sedro Woolley, WA, USA.
    Ratings: +1,748 / 0
    I had to look it up...funny.
    Mark Moore and Kent Lufkin like this.
  20. smelt047 New Member

    Posts: 20
    Seattle, WA
    Ratings: +20 / 0
    Now you've convinced me that Kim and Kent are Extremely Bad People. Actually, Ron, you've hit escape velocity as you rocket past Pluto and leave our solar system.

    More seriously, I know that mud-slinging and character assassination are "go-to" plays in the Hobby Miner Playbook, but they are laughably lame when you put them in print. You guys just wind up further undermining your own dwindling credibility by launching ridiculous personal attacks against your opponents.
    Josh likes this.
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