Important for all outdoorsmen

Discussion in 'Fly Fishing Forum' started by juro, Aug 10, 2014.

  1. Take a few minutes and educate yourself on what big oil is doing to screw us. We can only be good stewards of the resource if we understand the threat.
    Golden Trout likes this.
  2. There are some costs associated with modern living. Neither a defense nor a hanging... but we can't have it all. I do think much improvement has been made in the last few decades and continual pressure from all of us will continue this trend.
    Stew McLeod likes this.
  3. Corporations of the size of Big Oil are not to be trusted. Period. The same can be safely said for natural gas companies, logging companies, pharmaceuticals, and investment banks, among others. Anything good the above do, they do for the tax break or the PR opportunity - never, ever because it's the right thing to do. Oregon and Washington would be a parking lot if not for the continual pressure placed on logging companies that Freestone Angler mentions. That same pressure, amplified a hundred times, must be placed on those who would shave the top layer off of the province of Alberta in search of oil sands.
    Golden Trout likes this.
  4. The oil industry is a lot like a malignant cancer. It starts out in one location and then infiltrates into everything until it is so widespread that it becomes impossible to get rid of it. Can't find many products these days that are directly or indirectly connected to the oil business. We have become addicted to the stuff without even knowing it.
    Golden Trout likes this.
  5. I find it fascinating... the term big oil and if they were some evil entity all to themselves. Last time I checked, they were created by people, operated by people, and provide value to people...many who fly fish...many on this forum.
  6. GREED: a selfish and excessive desire.

    George Harrison wrote a song for the 'LET IT BE' album that fits this thread.

    "I ME MINE".
  7. Any idea how much oil was consumed to make those 600+ million albums... not to mention all those transatlantic trips to and from Liverpool. Then there's all the driving to from concerts, power to run the amps, lights and concessions, Beatle-mania plastic toys,... it just goes on and on. One doesn't have to look to far to see all of the sources that drive demand for oil.
  8. How we can try and separate our own responsibility from the evil done by "big business" just amazes the hell out of me.

  9. Hmm. Interesting perspective. I owned a corporation for many years. It was a veterinary hospital and we provided veterinary medical care for thousands of people and their pets at an affordable price. Now, Monsanto is a corporation and they provide chemicals that kill pests and unwanted plants. But, they gained power enough to corner the market, create the political power and now they genetically manipulate most of the grains here in the US, monopolize that industry to create food that has been linked to serious health problems. Halliburton is a corporation owned and operated by people. Hell, Dick Cheney is a fly fisherman. Dick Cheney was the power behind the force that drove the US to invade Iraq. His company made 39.4 billion dollars off the Iraq war. And, I can safely say that both of these companies aren't even in the same ballpark that the oil and gas industry operates. The point is, there are many good corporations here in the US run by a lot of good people. But, there are also those that are solely motivated by profit and will do anything that it takes to get there, including creating a dependency in the country, starting a war, and so on.
    weiliwen likes this.

  10. Next time you have a heart attack, tell the ambulance driver not to take you to the hospital. :)
  11. Steve, I searched this thread and did not see any sign of anybody trying to separate their own responsibility from the evil done by "big business."

    I agree with Dennis - there are corporations, most of them smallish, that have the right attitude, but the large ones all seem to lose their humanity, no matter that they are owned by humans and humans work for them. Monsanto is a great example.
  12. Before anyone starts bashing big business, small business, multinational corporations, huge salaries paid to CEO's or anything else, one needs to have a basic understanding, based on reality, of of how private business works. There are three basic rules of any business. Offer a good product, at a fair price, and make a profit. If the product is no good, or the price is deemed unfair by the customers, it will not sell. That is, unless they are forced to buy it. If the company is unable to turn a profit, the whole reason for it's existence is nill, and it will cease operations.

    None of this applies to monopolies or anything the government has it's hands in. (Name one, just one, government business that is in the black. There are none!) Similarly, if you work for the government, at any level, in any capacity, you are incapable of understanding this basic concept because you are part of the problem. Same goes for all of you college students who have yet to hold a full time job and become self sufficient. Not to mention all of those on welfare.

    So the next time you hear Obama, or any other politician, bitching & moaning about those evil corporations that are planning on moving their operation offshore and the millions of jobs lost, ask yourself why. What justifies the expense of moving a large corporation to another country? Profit, the bottom line. That evil bottom line. They are being regulated & taxed to the point that they can no longer turn a profit if they stay in the U.S. Of course Obama's pissed. He sees all that tax revenue, which he wants to fund his pet projects, disappearing. And when he talks about you losing your job, what he really means is rather than you paying income taxes, the government will have to pay you unemployment for a year.

    And why should we care if Micheal Isner, Bill Gates, or any other CEO is pulling in mega bucks? He is doing what he is being paid to do, insure that his company makes a profit. Do you think for one minute that if Micheal Isner took a significant reduction in salary & stock options, that your ticket to Disneyland would be any cheaper? Get over it. He has to pay income taxes on all of that. At something like 40%-60%

    So now we come down to those evil companies who are destroying the environment, and there are enough of those to go around. Oil companies wanting to drill in Yellowstone, build huge pipelines, coal companies leveling mountains, polluting everything, killing it's workers either with black lung or tunnel collapses, the list goes on & on ad infinitum. Let's face it. We are a power hungry nation. And we are not alone. As the rest of the world comes out of the dark ages, they too are competing for that same power. It's a never ending cycle.

    There are challenges to be met, problems to be solved, and important issues to be addressed. I'll put my money on the private sector. The government has already been proven inept.
  13. Dennis Hardman likes this.

  14. Instead of spending a lot of my time with rebuttal of your work, I will simply ask, "Is a good product a safe product? Ask the medical pharmaceutical corporations or the auto industry with their bean counters that determine if it is more profitable to let a certain number of people die due to unsafe manufacturing versus a national recall? Is it a fair price? According to Dick Cheney himself when confronted about what he was charging the armed forces in Iraq for food, he state that the American corporation doesn't deal with "fair prices." It sets prices on "What the market will bear." Might ask the pharmaceutical companies about that again. Did we forget the study where Walgreens Pharmacy admitted that their Z-Pack that they charged over $90 per patient cost them less than $2 to produce. Thirdly, make a profit. Anyone in business, including myself knows that there needs to be a profit, but when greed overrides the need for fair profit then the gloves come off. Outsourcing jobs by companies is not about making a profit. It is about making a lot of profit and disregarding those jobs that are lost or will be lost for the sake of the bottom line. Did you know that 43% of all graduates from law school here in the U.S. cannot find a job because of outsourcing? And, if you think that the government is the source of these problems, I think you have the cart in front of the horse. Have we forgotten the tax cuts for the wealthy passed by the Bush Administration that cost taxpayers 6.6 billion? Or have we forgotten the prefabricated reasons for Bush invading Iraq? That war cost the government (taxpayers) 2 trillion dollars while the corporations with their defense contracts made billions. Big business controls this country and anyone who thinks otherwise is sadly misinformed. Personally, I found that if I did not focus on the bottom line and kept my intention focused on integrity in business, I never had to worry about bottom line. It has always worked for me. It's a shame that big business doesn't have the same confidence.
    Greg Pucilowski likes this.

  15. Your welcome. I have always enjoyed taking care of animals and watching the connection between people and their pets. I can't personally give scientific proof about GMOs but I do know that there is a lot of research being done around the world and a lot of it doesn't look favorable. I can speak for the veterinary and livestock business with personal experience. The dairy industry, like many agricultural-based industry has transformed from the mom and pop dairies that I used to work with to the multi-million dollar dairy corporations. What used to be a pretty good industry, where dairy farmers enjoyed providing a health product to the consumer, has now become an industry driven by profit. Dairy cow producers are pumping their cows with hormones in order to produce larger milk quantities in shorter periods despite the negative impact that it has on the cows. Ask any dairy veterinarian and he/she will tell you those effects. Also, it is widely accepted that these hormones show up in the milk sold for consumption. Why aren't there studies to find out why our young girls are reaching puberty at 8 years instead of 12? Why has the government passed laws that prohibit the organic dairy producers from putting on their labels that their product does not contain hormones?

    Then there is the beef industry and its pink slime. The slaughter houses used to take all of the bi-products that hit the floor and boil it and put it in pet food. That was, until the government stepped in and said that it was not fit to be fed to our pets. Now, they rake it up off the floor, put it in boiling water, add some chemicals (chlorine, etc.) and put it back into their ground beef as filler, called pink slime. Once again, the government will not force the beef industry to label which ground beef has pink slim included in it. The main market for that contaminated ground beef has been our public schools. Was it a surprise that the lady that heads the FDA and was totally responsible for their policy with pink slime, when investigated, had received over 6 million dollars over the past 5 years by the beef industry. She finally admitted that pink slime had no nutritional value.

    But, if you want to believe that GMO food is healthy for you and yours, then feed it to them. My children, one who was diagnosed with celiac disease, are much healthier since we eliminate GMO wheat in our household. Might want to take a look at the glycemic index for some of the GMO carbs. then read about glycemic index, insulin suppression and risks of diabetes. Reminds me when all of the scientific organizations gave us proof that cigarettes were not harmful.
  16. "Vote" them out of biz by not buying their products...basic econ'

    jeez can we get to the fishing stuff please
    Steve Vaughn likes this.
  17. I'm not going to even attempt to argue with anyone who has all the answers. But I will point out that there are a lot of us who get up every day and and do every thing we can to defend this nation (who work for the government in some capacity) so you have the freedom to express your very black and white opinion. We were not aware we part of the problem, thanks for pointing that out.

    When you paint the world with a large brush, you miss a lot of the detail.

    But what the fuck do I know since I'm incapable of understanding basic concepts.
  18. I think it is time to move this thread to the Political Forum
    Skysoldier and Taxon like this.
  19. Just give it up Jeff, his head is stuck in his 4th point of contact and he thinks he knows it all.

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