Discussion in 'Fly Fishing Forum' started by Mark Walker, Feb 21, 2014.
I'll be damned. This thread is taking the same route as did all the others
I'm liking the wolf re-introduction. It's revealed much about human nature that would have otherwise remained hidden. It's expanded the pool narrow-minded extremists I'd rather not associate with.
Oh, and it's a great ecosystem experiment as well. And should it eventually prove to be a mistake, it's not like it's irreversible. We proved our ability to eradicate wolves nearly a century ago, lacking today's technology.
Damn, Mark, you nailed it.
When it happens in your backyard as an elk hunter who's invested into it for many years, this wolf crap is spoon feeding you guys, just like this video for those who don't walk on dirt is the exact same responses. My wish is plant wolves and let's see if that improves the fishing in your area. If it comes out of a university study, it must be true... well I got news on that, there changing minds by developing bias bullshit to feed you. Case in point the largest migrating herd in N. America has been reduced from a high of 22K elk to less than 3K today.... why because we need more song birds, eagles and beavers. What a farse. My hope to all of you that like wolves, may they come to your area and feel the impact.
Lastly, if anyone here has ever fished buffalo ford in YNP and have seen the tourist out wading trying to catch stupid Yellow cuts those fish wait for people to stir up nymphs in the river, cast towards the knee of a tourist and bang, easy as it gets... well what do you think a herd of elk or buffalo do that crosses the river? They call that erosion I call it feeding time.
Well Gene, at least we got some fishing advice on Trustfunder's last post. That's got to be a first...
"Plant wolves and see if it improves the fishing in our area." What?? Wolves have been part of the landscape in my area for longer than man has been here. The fishing in my backyard speaks for itself.
Who's spoon feeding who?
You believe that the elk belong solely to you because you have "invested" in hunting elk.
You've done nothing more in your rant than prove my point about extremist on both ends.
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To base the success of the Wolf recovery solely on the success to easily harvest elk is certainly shortsighted. I remember a story about a woman in Avery Idaho, on the St Joe river as she railed at a news reporter about the Canadian Grey Wolves ruining hunting. She stated that she has been able kill her Elk every year without even leaving the road. Now they don't even see Elk in town any more.
When I left Eastern Wa for Arizona I thought maybe I would leave the Wolf hysteria behind but alas, here it is the same thing with the re-introduction of the Mexican Grey Wolf.
The heck with it I am going fishing.
PS I just broke a promise to myself about never posting on a wolf thread.
It seems to me that when it comes to these threads, emotions and opinions float and facts sink. So what we see floating by is....
There were a lot less people when wolves roamed the upper west. There were a lot more wagons when you could find a blacksmith in every town with more than a few hundred people.
Anyone tried popcorn with yeast on it?
pretty tasty, but hard to find at the movies.
I think that wolves should be introduced downtown Seattle, Bellevue, and at the epicenters of most of the PNW cities.. Make sure they are unfed for a couple days too..
Society seems need an enema from the responses of these wolf threads..
I would pay to see that.
This thread, along with others, only exposes how we are so narrow minded/arrogant/insecure/________ at times.
Whether it be wolves, politics, economy, religion, heck even fly rods, fly line, waders, mono vs fluoro, swing vs nymph, and yes indicators or "bobbers" - only go to show how all of us can be either "I'm right, you're wrong" or "I can't believe you'd be so dumb to think that way.".
You know why most of us listen to our choice of talk radio/TV news outlet? Because most of us just want to have the way we think/feel validated. That doesn't mean you're wrong, but it doesn't necessarily mean you're 100% right either. What ever happen to actual investigative disclosure - about any topic?
It's hard to go into most things open minded any more, because heck.... we might just be wrong about the way we are thinking at the time. And nobody likes to be wrong - but I ask why? Isn't that when we learn the most?
When I try a certain way of fishing (thinking "Man, I'm going to slay them today!") and come away catching very little or nothing, why wouldn't I change my tactics? "Well that's stupid Kaiserman! Everyone does that!" Well, try applying that to certain ways that you feel strong about, yet have no actual experience in the matter. Wow, what a concept!
You know what, let me be one of the first guys to say, "I've been there, and I've done that.". Not meaning, "Hey, look at me! I'm so balanced and mature, I look at everything with an open mind.". No, "I've been there, and I've done that", meaning I've voiced my opinion on here without actually investigating/trying out/______ .
However, saying "This thing or that thing doesn't really bother me, so I'm cool." is well... a passive way to say (somehow) that you're a real "balanced" individual.
Really all you're saying is, "Because it doesn't affect me, screw everyone else.".
That doesn't help anyone either... Just because it doesn't affect you, maybe it is actually affecting others. That's a very myopic way to look at life in my opinion.
Just one example: Say farmer Joe loses 25% of his cattle because wolves are attacking his herd. Well, it isn't affecting me, so whatever man, I'm cool.
Now, should we go kill all the wolves? No. However maybe, just maybe we could drop our "Save the whales/kill them all/It doesn't affect me" view points and approach these issues.... with an open mind.
So what would hungry wolves do in downtown Seattle except hide and look for dogs or cats. Oh I forgot south of the line they feed on humans and children. They also dress up like granny and eat pubescent girls.
1. Man can manage wolves but can't manage "deer" although it could have something to do with the identification of "deer".
2. Someone's version of "the truth" is colored by his/her stance on the issue. Or, opinions are like @$$holes - everybody's got one.
3. Myself, I put wolves and sea lions and seals in the same category. I'd buy a tag if one were available, but that's just me.
4. Maybe we should revive that '70's bumper sticker: "Nuke an unborn gay whale (wolf?) for Jesus"
I do have some empathy for those poor bastards who think they're farming when they are actually raising free wolf food for the state.
Pass the popcorn
Well after watching that video, it looks like we can balance the fish and game budget by firing as many employees of the game department as necessary to balance their budget and replace them with wolves which seem to cure every ill an ecosystem ever had.
Here is an interesting article on this topic. If you think we have disagreements on here regarding this issue, read the comments. Start at the bottom and work up.
I don't think the original clip was about wolves.
It was about how interconnected everything is within an ecosystem, to an amazing degree.
I think an appreciation for nature is something most of us share on this forum.
It must be true what they say,History does tend to repeat its self.
Disclaimer--No govenment funds were used in this study.
One thing they did fail to state is how the fires of the late 80's and early 90's affected vegetation in Yellow stone and the surrounding areas. That Wolfs were all ready in Mt. Id. Wy. Ut.
I've made up my mind to not involve myself in any more canis lupus debates, regardless of which sub species. But, (there's always a but after a statement like this one isn't there?) I will say that I'm seeing firsthand, the elk adapting in ways I find amazing.
I want to see elk adapt by growing fanged teeth and sharper hooves and wearing antlers year around to better level the playing field with those pesky wolves. Wolves hunt in packs, like gangbangers, so it's only fair that the elk adapt appropriately for this asymmetrical warfare. I encountered a large herd of elk Sunday and shooed them away four times. But just think if elk stopped acting like dumb cattle. If stuff like that happens, I too will need advice on a suitable holster for my hand cannon while hiking and fishing.