I've been watching...

Discussion in 'Fly Fishing Forum' started by Citori, Apr 6, 2014.

  1. Citori Piscatorial Engineer

    Posts: 1,204
    Federal Way, WA
    Ratings: +118 / 0
    ...for a post regarding the WDFW response to the WFC lawsuit on use of Chambers Creek Steelhead for early winter plants. The department has done a pretty good job of trying to hang this around the neck of the Wild Fish Conservancy folks, but ultimately, the Dept. decided to not release the hatchery plants because they lack ESA coverage to do so. DFW expects to lose the suit, and they don't want to exacerbate the situation by releasing the steelhead plants after they have been sued, because the judge would rightly see it as a disingenuous move. The HGMP on the Chambers plants that DFW submitted in 2005 probably won't pass muster, but it has been sitting on the corner of someone's desk at NOAA-Fisheries awaiting review since then. Now DFW is scrambling to get HGMP(s) submitted, but NOAA/NMFS says it will take a year to review.

    http://wdfw.wa.gov/news/apr0114c/

    So, who's to blame? The Department who has failed to submit the HGMP's that ESA has required for the past 10 years? NOAA/NMFS for being derelict in their duties and not ruling on the HGMP they have for 9 years? Or the guy who says "you really need to follow the rules" now? They will get to sort it out, at our expense, in court, again. But the only thing you can be sure of is that the recreational fishing community yet again gets to take it up the tail pipe for the folks charged with managing the resource not doing their damn job, AGAIN! Add that to another round of NOF where the Puget Sound recreational fishers get hosed again, AND a Columbia River fishery that will not make it to the Labor Day weekend...

    How much more of this [expletive deleted] are we willing to take?

    Bastards.
    Leopardbow likes this.
  2. Salmo_g Active Member

    Posts: 7,543
    Your City ,State
    Ratings: +1,679 / 0
    Your reasoning is solid. Pretty hard to argue against that.

    Sg
  3. Flyborg Active Member

    Posts: 2,309
    Kalama, WA
    Ratings: +602 / 0
  4. freestoneangler Not to be confused with Freestone

    Posts: 4,117
    Edgewood, WA
    Ratings: +784 / 1
    Can you say "billable hours" :rolleyes:. The action taken by WFC is simply stupid and will do nothing in the long run but further alienate the fishing community as a whole.
  5. _WW_ Fishes with Wolves

    Posts: 1,926
    Skagit River
    Ratings: +666 / 0
    I think the basic process for HGMPs, Steelhead management plans, etc. is seriously flawed. The whole process seems engineered to take an interminable amount of time and one has to wonder if it is primarily designed to keep folks employed and use up all of the available budget first, and actually accomplish something second.

    The following could be applied to many things; (like Occupy Skagit)
    If we could put all the concerned parties in a conference room and not allow them to leave until it was worked out we could cut years down to one single solitary day. It would be done by lunch and typed up by dark.

    Instead of spending a year to review a plan that has taken someone else a year to come up with why not help them to make the plan in the first place and review it as you go? Intergovernmental cooperation - what a concept! It could usher in a whole new era of "getting shit done now" or "hurrying the fuck up!"

    The tried and true methods of the past have helped to bring us to this point of a glacially paced management environment that cannot keep up with the faster pace of mother nature's changing conditions. And what's worse is - it seems to be perfectly acceptable to the very people it affects.
  6. Roper Idiot Savant

    Posts: 4,308
    Glenraven Ranch
    Ratings: +790 / 1
    WTF is a HGMP?
    flybill likes this.
  7. KerryS Ignored Member

    Posts: 6,747
    Sedro Woolley, WA, USA.
    Ratings: +1,775 / 0
    I'm guessing; Hatchery and Genetic Management Plan.
  8. flybill Purveyor of fine hackle, wine & cigars!

    The sound you make when you have flem in your throat! I think Kerry S is right though.. maybe I am too.. Wondered the same thing myself!
    Roper likes this.
  9. Whitey Active Member

    Posts: 991
    Far side of the moon
    Ratings: +185 / 0
    No way! Are you saying hatcheries are really a jobs program designed to waste taxpayer time and money?

    WDFW has made these issues so convoluted that the general public can't even begin to understand what's really going on.

    Case in point, the gear chucking community, who are primarily gun toting, god fearing republicans somehow love the idea of hatchery welfare!

    Mind=blown
  10. Citori Piscatorial Engineer

    Posts: 1,204
    Federal Way, WA
    Ratings: +118 / 0
    A HGMP (Hatchery Genetic Management Plan) is required by ESA to be approved by NOAA/NMFS for any hatchery to plant fish.

    Hint - there are no magic bullets. There is no "right answer", the simple answers have all been used up and things are still going sideways. ESA is the law of the land and people need to follow the rules. If they don't, bad things happen. Even if they do, bad things still might happen. In this case, the folks who are supposed to know, follow and uphold the rules didn't. And WE, not them, get to pay the price.
    Grayone likes this.
  11. freestoneangler Not to be confused with Freestone

    Posts: 4,117
    Edgewood, WA
    Ratings: +784 / 1
    They learned everything they know from the IRS. :eek:

    [/quote]Case in point, the gear chucking community, who are primarily gun toting, god fearing republicans somehow love the idea of hatchery welfare![/quote]

    Hate to bust yer bubble, but I know plenty of gear chucking, fly swinging, gun toting, God fearing, Dems who support hatchery programs.
    doublespey likes this.
  12. Whitey Active Member

    Posts: 991
    Far side of the moon
    Ratings: +185 / 0
    "Hate to bust yer bubble, but I know plenty of gear chucking, fly swinging, gun toting, God fearing, Dems who support hatchery"

    That's not shocking at all. I think you missed the point. I could care less if your red or blue, but it's surprising that a lot of people if you asked which side.....nevermind, I think everyone else got it.
  13. Kent Lufkin Remember when you could remember everything?

    Posts: 7,136
    Not sure
    Ratings: +1,226 / 0
    This won't be the last time that someone finally calls foul on WDFW, USFS, NOAA, NMFS and others for a colossal cluster fuck where every agency blames the other for the ball being dropped. Can you spell allowing suction dredge mining on ESA listed streams otherwise closed to fishing?

    K
  14. freestoneangler Not to be confused with Freestone

    Posts: 4,117
    Edgewood, WA
    Ratings: +784 / 1
    "Accountability" has been removed from the approved list of government definitions :rolleyes:. And, the decision to allow dredging in ESA listed waters is evidence they are considering eliminating "competency" as well.