leaders

Discussion in 'Steelhead' started by francis james hunnycut, May 18, 2013.

  1. francis james hunnycut Redneck Hippie

    Posts: 77
    bothell
    Ratings: +19 / 0
    Good day my fellow chrome chasers. I am looking for some input on furled leaders. Right now, I use the airflo 10' extra super fast sink tip, which sinks at 5feet per second, with 12-18" of maxima ultrgreen tippet. I like the idea of using hand tied furled leaders, but it looks to me like all of the benefits come into play when using dry flies. Also, cuthroat leaders has a "big bug" spey leader, but it is only 52" long. That seems kinda short to me, are you just supposed to use 4feet of tippet? What do you use? Are you happy with it? One friend said he has so many different tips he wouldn't even know where to begin explaining. How many could you need? Get it down where the fish are as quick as possible, right? Any advice/input would be greatly appreciated.
  2. Danielocean Steelhead Virgin

    Posts: 1,397
    Monroe
    Ratings: +578 / 0
    I do not know what size tippet is normal. This is something I would like to know also. As far how many tips you need. I have read that an angler should carry a back up for every tip that he or she has. This is just in case your tip gets tangled up on something on the water. I would be guessing that the length of tippet depends on the conditions you are fishing in. If it is clear as a bell out and sunny then I suppose long tippets are necessary.
  3. hydrological beads are NOT flies and snagging is just ghetto

    Posts: 536
    inland
    Ratings: +99 / 0
    at 5"per sec, are you using poly or versi leaders, or actual sink tip ? big difference in depth right there. poly's are fine if swinging for summer fish, usually much faster sinking tips for winters (200-400 gr) match your tip tothe water. i have'nt found agood use for furled leaders yet.
  4. Steve Unwin Active Member

    Posts: 314
    Edmonds, WA
    Ratings: +84 / 0
    Short furled leaders are generally pretty good at turning over a pretty long level tippet. I often use a 5.5' furled leader with 6-8' of tippet and it casts really nicely. Furled is nice in my opinion for gentle presentations of small dries, but I use them almost exclusively because they cast nicely and are resistant to wind knots.

    I'm not sure how useful they are for steelheading, especially if you are wanting a sinking leader.
  5. Salmo_g Active Member

    Posts: 7,472
    Your City ,State
    Ratings: +1,615 / 0
    Francis,

    A couple comments. First, it's beyond extremely unlikely, as in, right up there with impossible, that your super extra fast sink tip sinks at 5 feet per second. I'm not certain that straight pencil lead sinks that fast. Second, you can use a furled leader for steelhead fishing, but virtually 100% of the steelheaders I know have no application for it. Maybe they are all missing out on something?

    Sg
  6. francis james hunnycut Redneck Hippie

    Posts: 77
    bothell
    Ratings: +19 / 0
    Oh my gawd! I meant 5inches per second! Lol...sorry about that. So I am not using any kind of versi-tip system on any of my rods. I haven't used my spey rod hardly at all. I just got it last season summer and had avid angler line up the reel for me, but I just have one sinking and one floating leader. The question was primarily for my single handed rod that I have floating line on. Should I be using a sink tip line instead of floating? Should I get a versi-tip system for my spey rod? Hell, should I be using one on my single hander? This will be my 4th season swinging flies for steelhead, so I am still totally new. I feel this last year I finally started getting the hang of it and even caught one on the swing!
  7. Salmo_g Active Member

    Posts: 7,472
    Your City ,State
    Ratings: +1,615 / 0
    Francis,

    Put out the joint and straighten up Numb Nuts. You are being way too unclear here. What exactly are you asking?

    You should use a sink tip for fishing a deeply sunk fly. You should use a floating tip for fishing wet flies near the surface and for fishing dry flies and skaters. Then there is that element of fly fishing that uses a floating line and long enough leader to fish deep sunk flies also.

    Whether you should get a Versi-tip system for your Spey rod depends on what the fuck you want to do. When you decide what it is you want to do, we can provide much higher quality answers. Now, if you are still in the phase of not knowing enough to figure out just what it is that you want to do, we can make suggestions, but those will be scattered across the subjective opinions of the respondents because there is no single right answer. But we are here to help.

    Sg
  8. golfman65 Guest

    Posts: 0
    Ratings: +5 / 0
    I just spit coffee all over my keyboard.....
    Blake Harmon and JesseCFowl like this.
  9. hydrological beads are NOT flies and snagging is just ghetto

    Posts: 536
    inland
    Ratings: +99 / 0
    how much wood do you need for a winters hope ?
  10. francis james hunnycut Redneck Hippie

    Posts: 77
    bothell
    Ratings: +19 / 0
    Wow. Yeah, I'm pretty confused about the whole thing, ouviusly. Thanks for attempting to help. Didn't really appreciate the insults.
  11. francis james hunnycut Redneck Hippie

    Posts: 77
    bothell
    Ratings: +19 / 0
    I use a single handed rod with a floating line. I have been employing a 10foot poly coated leader with 12-18" of maxima ultragreen tippet. I have been looking at various furled leaders online and was wondering about possibly using something like that instead of a poly leader. I was asking what others use for fishing deeperbugs and are they happy with it. That's all.
  12. Nooksack Mac Active Member

    Posts: 1,945
    Bellingham, WA, USA.
    Ratings: +109 / 0
    Everybody understands what kind of leader is needed for fishing a floating steelhead fly, which is also right for a "damp" fly (barely in or a few inches under the surface). And we know how to dredge the depths with sink tips. But for fishing in between, there's not nearly as much consensus.

    A floating mono leader can be made to go down - within limits. Let's say you're fishing a conventional steelhead fly: standard wire hook, no bouyent materials or weight from lead wraps or tungsten eyes, etc.
    The bottom is waist deep. So, to get adequate depth, the leader should be fairly long, say nine feet or more. And the important addition is one of technique: It's important not to cast so as to throw a pretty loop and straighten out the whole cast. Rather, the leader should plot down in a messy puddle. That will allow the fly to begin sinking immediately. In ten to 15 seconds, it'll be several feet down. If you cast slightly upstream, you add a few precious seconds for the fly to sink. But as soon as the line and leader come taught, the fly is pretty much done sinking. Mending once or twice is an obvious assistance to the process. Just don't mend reflexively and thoughtlessly.

    If you make the same leader out of fluorocarbon, the fly will sink a little more. A longish fluoro leader is, in effect, an intermediate sink tip.

    I don't think that braided or furled leaders are an asset to this kind of use. I do use them for presenting little dry flies and emergers, on still lakes and spring creeks. To keep them floating, use line floatant on the braided strands.

    (And don't mind Salmo_g; he's probably just nursing a pre-steelhead season bellyache, with 12 days more to go. I know I am.)
  13. Salmo_g Active Member

    Posts: 7,472
    Your City ,State
    Ratings: +1,615 / 0
    Francis,

    Apologies, Man! Just talking to ya' the way I would if you were sitting in a bar with me discussing fishing. I wanted to make sure you understood you were coming across real scatter-brained. Rather than answer the question I think you're asking, I want to find out just what the hell you are trying to ask. You get better answers that way.

    Return to square one. What rod are you fishing? And how is it you want to fish? If we can figure out what you're trying to do, we can tell you how to do it.

    Sg
  14. francis james hunnycut Redneck Hippie

    Posts: 77
    bothell
    Ratings: +19 / 0
    St croix 9' 8w with floating line. I use the airflo 10foot poly leaders. Just thought about trying something new and using a furled leader in place of the poly. It is my understanding that loon makes a product that you apply to these leaders to help them reach the depths. I was wondering if this was possibly a good route to go. Since asking people this question, versi-tips keep coming up, which I know nothing about.
  15. Steve Unwin Active Member

    Posts: 314
    Edmonds, WA
    Ratings: +84 / 0
    Some furled leaders are fairly neutrally buoyant and will sink if you put sink paste on them, but it's more likely going to be like an intermediate or hover type; it's not going to be anywhere near the sink rate of a polyleader. Sinking a furled leader really depends on a weighted fly to get it down.
  16. Thomas Williams Habitual Line Stepper

    Posts: 1,380
    Ansbach, Germany
    Ratings: +387 / 16
    A furled leader will either float, hover, or sink very slowly. If its made of mono it may float somewhat. If its made of flouro it will sink a bit faster. The main attraction for using furled leaders to me is they turn over nicely and I can just keep tying on new tippet instead of buying or making a whole new leader. Also the flouro furled leaders are good for fishing just under the surface film and tossing into reeds with soft hackles and what not. So now to the versitip. You can buy a versitip system if you want to be able to fish sinking tips at different depths and don't want to buy spare spools or full lines. You can use poly leaders the same way buy just attaching them to your dry fly line. I find they cast better if you cut the front taper back and make a new loop. Moral of the story is a furled leader is just a butt section of a normal leader with a tippet ring to add new tippet. Poly leaders are sinking tips. I love furled leaders but you won't be able to dredge with them. Stick with poly leaders mow tips or tungsten tips for that.

    Sent from my HTC_Amaze_4G using Tapatalk 2
  17. francis james hunnycut Redneck Hippie

    Posts: 77
    bothell
    Ratings: +19 / 0
    Thank you all for the insight. It sounds like I am doing the right thing now. I have a couple different airflo leaders with different sink rates, and have some flouro leaders for a more intermediate sink. Sounds like I may want to try a nice furli ed leader . for my trout set-up. I think I will look into a versi-tip system for my spey rod just as son as I learn how to use it a little better...
  18. JesseC Active Member

    Posts: 1,965
    seattle, wa
    Ratings: +724 / 0
    I think you're still high if you're still stuck on the furled leader thing
  19. francis james hunnycut Redneck Hippie

    Posts: 77
    bothell
    Ratings: +19 / 0
    Again, don't really appreciate the insults. Stay safe out there
  20. Salmo_g Active Member

    Posts: 7,472
    Your City ,State
    Ratings: +1,615 / 0
    Francis,

    You don't have to like or even listen to the insults, but people are trying to help you, seemingly in spite of yourself. Why are you being your own worst enemy (in terms of learning about steelheading here?)? The listen up Numb Nuts was to try and get your attention. The next step is a "hey Shit-fer-brains, what is it about 100% of the steelheaders I know do not use furled leaders for steelheading" that you don't understand?

    In the small book I once started about fly fishing for steelhead, but haven't come even close to finishing, I recommend that novices should learn what experienced steelheaders use and do, and then use and do the same thing. Now you can go ahead and do what successful steelheaders DON'T do all you want, but why the fuck would you? Seriously, why?

    If the poly leaders cast well enough on your floating line, then maybe that's the ticket for you. My experience with poly leaders on the end of a factory floating line was not the best casting experience I've had. Read my response to Daniel regarding lines that work damn well for steelhead fishing.

    Now get with the program and forget the furled leader except for dry fly fishing for trout, OK?

    Sg
    Danielocean likes this.