Lenore Poachers Get Theirs

Discussion in 'Fly Fishing Forum' started by miyawaki, Apr 10, 2013.

  1. Hell yeah, lets kill the scum bag poachers! Damm I wish those wardens had a license to kill then we wouldn't even be having this debate, they killed the fish the slimy good for nothings deserve the bullet no doubt. Dang it if people like Alex though didn't go out and fight for our freedom and our constitution and that stupid due process crap. But what the hell they are obviously a bunch of illegal immigrants with names like Krikistateted or whatever the hell they were because those sure aren't American names. Don't you all wish we as good Americans had that special license kill, to be judge and jury on the spot, we don't need to find out anymore information, they were bad, string them up, stop wasting time and energy and money, we see the bad and we put an immediate end to it. Start packing men and if you are a sleeze ball poacher or rule breaker I'm going to be gunning for you because you are not worth my empathy/sympathy/whateverathy. I'm sure that most of you agree that if you had caught these guys and been given the right to do so you would have pulled the trigger without hesitation.

    Heck let's not stop at these guys, I mean hell these guys only killed fish, lets go after the real bad dudes and duddets lets go after the people who talk on their cell phones and text while driving those people cause over 2,500 human deaths a year and over another 330,000 injuries. Talk about terrorists! Cops should just pull those people over shoot them on sight, impound their cars and stuff and sell it so the state can have more money.

    Next on my list is those speeders, you know who you are. Over 10,000 deaths a year are contributed to speeding. Hell over 32% of all traffic deaths can be attributed to speeding at a cost of over $40 billion a year. Those are the real criminals.

    And in both these cases, these are people willfully breaking the law and knowingly putting other peoples lives in danger. Not fishes lives, but human lives. These are scumbags to the nth degree and do not deserve right to due process.

    Hell in comparison to traffic a-holes, what those poachers did seems meaningless, but don't get me wrong they are still scumbags that deserve to DIE, and I have no doubts about my ability to judge with little or limited information, they are what they are and they will never change.

    As has already been mentioned, there are already to many humans on planet Earth and it is about time we started doing something to cull the population. Make a mistake and you pay the cheapest way we know how, bullet in the head and you share a mass grave with a bunch of other folks, I like it, I like it a lot as long as I get to be the judge of what is right and wrong.

    Oh and Alex, I think dbk has met evil like you mentioned, in fact I think he's faced it right here on this forum.

    So worth breaking my new years resolution not to get sucked into this garbage!
    gator1954, dfl, Jason Rolfe and 5 others like this.
  2. So worth breaking my new years resolution not to get sucked into this garbage! (Quote Irafly)
    Well you did hold out for nearly 4months...Better luck next year
    Irafly likes this.

  3. Ira, there is hope for you after all. You are starting to get cranky like me and OMJ. Next thing you know your screenname will change to OMI and when you fish you will only use three flies.
    Irafly likes this.
  4. Holy crap Irafly, what got into you?! :eek: ;)
  5. Reason is the difference between man and animals. Those SOBs chose not to use their power of reason. Screw-em. They knew what they were doing and they deserve worse than what they got. Many times a week reading or hearing about low-life scum, I sometimes wish we had laws and cops like in Singapore.

    dbk, history has shown us time and again what empathy and compassion gets you; dead or enslaved. check it out, lots of material on the subject...while busy researching, please find me an animal species on the planet which is "progressive" in nature.

    Considering others, including myself, choose to place ourselves in Mother Nature's den regularly, this is the arena where empathy is needed. But, she can be a real bitch and does not give shit about you in the least.
    Bill Aubrey and Alex MacDonald like this.
  6. The outcome I have hope for goes way beyond the elimination of poaching... the reality is our laws, no matter how strict, do not eliminate such behavior and there is nothing we can do legally to guarantee such crimes will never be committed again, short of killing those who commit crimes (of any sort) against society. That is not to say laws are not important, but they cannot (in of themselves) change human behavior, though they certainly can positively influence it.... It would dishonest of me to say I have a "prescription" that would eliminate all such behavior because I do not... we are all broken and messed up in some way as human beings, but I do know, that real change (of heart and mind) in ALL people is possible (simply because we are human), though some may never want to change or see the need to change, and thus never will because it cannot be "forced" upon them. We have free will and make our choices and we must be accountable for them, but if we allow the evil acts of others to be the "measuring stick" by which we judge them and the "rightness" of our response towards them, then we do not end that cycle of evil, but we perpetuate it and enable to spread... like a virus. All I am inviting others to see is the possibility that there is another "way" by which we can see others and ourselves which remains True no matter how dire, dark, violent, and brutal the situation with other people may be.. that Goodness is stronger than evil and remains so especially when we resist the temptation to fight evil with evil, instead of killing it with love... that is the only thing that will destroy it.

    I have sympathy, and hopefully, empathy for Alex and others who have seen first hand the "worst" of our human nature- when things have totally broken down and all there seems to be is an evil disregard or blindness to the humanity of another to the extent that that person (or persons) has no value, worth or dignity... their life, existence thus becoming completely disposable. I cannot say how I would react if in that situation, and I do not judge those who do. But if we define others by the "darkness" we see, as opposed to the light (good) we cannot, then we give in to it and keep it alive... which will lead us to see a man who kills a bunch of fish as a scum, dirtbag, garbage, etc. instead of a person who somebody loves and is important to, whose life is of immense value and worth, even though we may not think so. The kind of brutality that Alex experienced is something no human being should have to go through or be put through, but that brutality is not the definition of who we are as human beings, but a tragic departure from it. If that experience of another's brutal disregard of my humanity or that of others becomes the "lens" through which I perceive "right and wrong", then the very evil that hurts us becomes the measure of "justice" - not true justice, but simply that which one finds in the chaos of war when "anything goes" and survival at all costs is the only goal....

    The outcome I hope for is that we as human beings would live in accord with our fundamental purpose or identity, which is to love and be loved.... not the love we see in the world (self-seeking), but the Love that lays down its life for ones friends... and enemies alike. When in its in my heart, I can see the good in someone who hurts me, or at least try to... because to love is a choice.. an act of the will to promote the good of another even if they do not seek my good.... even if they try to hurt me.. or kill me. That choice can still be made and that is all I am advocating for... we look at these men through a different "lens" if you will then the one which leads us to seem them as disposable, worthless, "human garbage" which can be thrown out and dismissed without remourse.

    If we base our laws on that, then its like Ira says.... we might as well get rid of the speeders, the poachers, etc... and that is not reality. That is hell.
    dfl likes this.
  7. Exactly.
    wolverine and Alex MacDonald like this.
  8. Not even close..............
    wolverine and Alex MacDonald like this.
  9. Don't give me your "sympathy" DBK; I find it insulting. I can't imagine living in your world; it revolts me to my core. This "respect gets respect" bullshit is exactly that. Our laws aren't working only because of people like you, want to "redeem" losers, to "show them another way". Educate yourself. Two examples: the first, Vlad III Tepes, or Vlad the Impaler. His nickname was well-earned. You say our laws can't change human behavior? Try this one on for size. Tepes once set a Jewel-encrusted gold cup on the town fountain in Targoviste so passers-by could drink from it. The punishment for theft of this cup was impalement of the thief's entire family. The cup stayed put for an entire year, until Vlad III removed it. Second example, and more in "modern times"; according to DOJ stats, last year 76,000 people were denied the purchase of a firearm by the Federal NICS system. It's a felony to lie on this form. Of this number, of course, DOJ doesn't break down this number into how many were actually errors in the system, or actual stupid criminals trying to buy a gun, but only 13 were successfully prosecuted. Hell, man, I'd take those odds to Vegas in a heartbeat!

    We're done now with this rubbish; Those of you who wish things were different, I can't fault you. I, too wish we had no more scum wandering the landscape. Let's put it this way: we have two different kinds of people here, both working toward a common goal. One group works to reduce the amount of garbage by trying to get more out of it, the other group simply takes out the trash. The end result is the same.
  10. You obviously don't know me that well.
  11. Your right Alex I've always thought recycling was a stupid idea. Just throw it away and get it over with right? Who cares about the overall impact to our environment. Great analogy.
  12. Ira, I think you might get a laugh out of this monologue by the late George Carlin. I apologize for the commercial at the beginning; wish there were some way to "neutralize" it, but nooo... Anyway this really begins about 1:19 into the thing. Even though I do try to leave no footprint behind, I still crack up when I hear it!
    airedale, freestoneangler and Irafly like this.
  13. You guys can have your sympathy. Alex is right, this namby pamby, touchy feely mindset is crippling society. Criminals should get punished, right? With what our bastardized justice system does now days is punish the victim. Hell often the criminal gets to sue their victims( and win because some pansy feels sorry for their troubled upbringing) and add insult to injury. People don't change. Trying to justify bad behavior is a waste of time. I don't believe in being judge, jury, and executioner, but I wouldn't have felt sorry for the poacher if he had drown. I would have shrugged and said good riddance, one less bucket in the shallow end of the gene pool.
  14. For the older guys on here favoring gentle treatment of the poachers, the harsher treatment though not desirious, would have one additional benefit. It would prevent your daughters from bringing said miscaltrants home and introducing them to you as their new boyfriends.
  15. i don't trust extremes, and i'm pretty skeptical of people who have a sense of certainty about things as complex as human nature. i can't go as far as alex, though some of what he says resonates with me. i do believe on certain levels in some of what dbk has proposed too, though his delivery strikes me as condescending, silly, and in some ways not authentic. i'm not a historian but my impression has been that our founders came from societies where governments used their authority in ways similar to what some here are pining for: when you KNOW someone is a bad guy, just make them pay. no doubt, in such a culture more bad guys would pay the price and that would be nice. but on the other hand, more people like me, or alex, or dbk, or any of you, would also sometimes answer the door to find a mob convinced of their guilt, and their life as they know it taken from them. the problem is knowing, and i'm a big believer in the idea of a high standard for establishing certainty before we remove the rights of another person. of course that means the guilty will often go unpunished, especially when the public servants administering the law at its various levels tend to be imperfect (at least) or corrupt (at worst). but i still believe that it's better for a guilty man to go free than for an innocent man to be punished. i value the good that decent people deserve more highly than i value the bad that bad people deserve, i guess that's the way i would put it.

    before the thread got hijacked by the high level philosophical discussion, the question was really "do you feel bad for a guy you know is an organized criminal and a thief, if he kills himself while trying to evade justice right after being caught red handed stealing something real and precious from real people?" my answer is that i know there's more to the story, that he's somebody's son, somebody's dad maybe, etc. etc. i don't feel fit to judge his soul or even his life on earth, but i wouldn't feel terrible for what happened to him either. if i was standing there and he was drowning, i would try to help, cause that's who i am. but i wouldn't get wound up about his back story too much, he's got to live with the results of his choices just like me.
    dfl, Irafly, The Duke and 2 others like this.
  16. You are correct and I am not sure what to make of your statement. I don't know if I should be scared of you or make an attempt to get to know you better.:D
    triploidjunkie and Irafly like this.
  17. It's called "personal responsibility".

    If you break it (by accident or on purpose) you will suffer the consequences. Grace, whether it is given or not, is up to the person that is offended.

    We, as a nation, have forgotten to teach this fundamental truth to our children. We indirectly teach them, "It's somebody elses fault."
    bennysbuddy and Alex MacDonald like this.
  18. Not truly accurate, but sort of "around the mark". One of our prohibitions, against "cruel & unusual" punishment was in regard to the English practice of hanging until not quite dead (mostly dead, like in Princess Bride:D), then cutting out the entrails, burning them while the criminal was still sort of alive, then cutting him up and sending the parts to various parts of the kingdom. There were several forms of this, so they didn't always follow the same routine. People left Europe originally due mainly to religious persecution. Once the colonies were safely established, the next wave came primarily to make money; among this wave was the group that were either indentured servants or slaves. Since the revolutionary war, the primary motivator's been economic, with religious and ethnic persecution following very close behind. 16th, 17th, 18th and to some extent, 19th century punishments resulted in death for many, many offenses, so in that regard it was what I'd consider severe.
  19. I like it! My own daughter brought home a little schmuck who tried to tell me he didn't smoke when I could smell it on him. I was driving them to a movie, and stopped the car, turned around and said "don't lie to me, you little shit, I'll twist your head off your neck". To which my daughter said; "he'd do it, too; he was a Navy SEAL". That was the end of my problems with "boyfriends". :eek:
  20. Peope don't automaticaly get my respect and or empathy. They earn it through their actions and behavior.


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