NFR LOL government in a nutshell

Discussion in 'Fly Fishing Forum' started by Evan Virnoche, Oct 4, 2013.

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  1. jessejames Flyslinger

    Posts: 1,871
    Show Low, Arizona
    Ratings: +354 / 3
    Thanks Dave that is good news.:) But if it is going to transition it would be better if it was sooner than five to ten years.
    BTW I would hope that a majority of the younger generation would see the value of having insurance and sign up. I know that when I was only 18 years old I picked a job/career that included the benefit of insurance for my family. That was one of the main considerations. Being a union worker I was able to move from job to job with several different employers sometimes two or three a year depending on where the work was and that great insurance just followed me where ever I went. I was never a "captive" to one employer just because of the benefits.
    jesse
  2. David Loy Senior Moment

    Posts: 2,444
    Wolf Bay
    Ratings: +333 / 2
    You were smart Jesse, probably learned something from the "best generation". Kids today live for today, period. And they're bolstered by the campaign slogan that health care is a "God given right". No, it is not. I'm not proud of the Republicans (or Democrats) but I'm not happy about sharing my hard earned money to fund this system. Especially when it will reduce the quality of health care. Why do you suppose the Canadians come down here for care?
  3. weiliwen Active Member

    Posts: 222
    Chicago Illinois
    Ratings: +89 / 0
    In fact, the Canadians are, relative to Americans, happy with their health care system. This is not an unsupported statement; the polls and data are plentiful and easy to find. Look at the Gallup, Harris or Ipsos polls, or even the CTV (Canadian Television) poll recently conducted that 91% of Canadians felt their healthcare system was better than the USA's. Anecdotal evidence to the contrary is really not supported by evidence on a macro scale. The quantity of Canadians who "come down here for care" is statistically insignificant.
  4. Evan Burck Fudge Dragon

    Posts: 6,503
    Duvall, wa
    Ratings: +1,706 / 2
    Go to the countries with the most socialized of health care and ask how they like it. It'd probably be more popular than in Canada even. Developed countries with socialized health care are overwhelmingly pleased with their systems compared to ours.

    I believe in socialized health care like I believe in socialized roads, fire departments, police, education, and plenty more. Plenty of data to back up supporting them. Plenty of baseless rhetoric to argue against it.

    Then again, if your primary source of "education" on such topics come from Fox "news," Rush, Hannity, etc... I can see how you could think otherwise.

    Edit: The current ACA is NOT socialized health care. In case there was any confusion.
  5. Flyborg Active Member

    Posts: 2,313
    Kalama, WA
    Ratings: +604 / 0
    Unfortunately, the old guard "libs" and conservatives are essentially the problem today. Guys like you can't look beyond your polarizing rhetoric and insist on pushing everyone to the edges so that when it comes time to vote, it's always "us or them." We're stuck in an increasingly static system designed to distract America from the real issues while the pol's play analingus with the actual powers.

    I have no problem pointing out that you are a snarky little bitch and you whine like a hipster in a Walmart. I appreciate your steadfastness, however. You never fail to be a douche :)
  6. Chris Johnson Member: Native Fish Society

    Posts: 1,797
    Bellingham Wa.
    Ratings: +324 / 1
    With a political system overwhelmed by money, and a corporate media that amplifies rather than challenges money and power, it's becoming increasingly hard to find the truth.
    Charles Sullivan, Lugan and weiliwen like this.
  7. Charles Sullivan dreaming through the come down

    Posts: 2,318
    bellingham wa
    Ratings: +566 / 0
    I fish in Canada more and more. When I am up there I make sure that I ask them about hteir health care system. I've never heard anyone say much bad about it at all. In fact they are quite proudof it. I've asked enough fishermen that it would be statistically signifigant.
    Additionally, I've asked those who work in hospitals (admittedly only 2). They like it.
    This year I was asking them why their economy was doing much better than ours. The response was quick and IMO correct. Abundant natural resources, health care and bank regulation.
    I'll continue my little socialogical experiment in November when I go up for a couple of days.

    Go Sox,
    cds
    Evan Burck likes this.
  8. Jeff Sawyer Active Member

    Posts: 450
    Tacoma WA
    Ratings: +249 / 0
    We are already redistributing health care cost to those of us fortunate enough to have health care coverage: When you go to the hospital and they charge you $30 for a single Tylenol, how much of that do you think is for the pill and how much is for all those uninsured folks that the hospitals have to see and treat. Hospitals are a business and they are there for the bottom line…and they have a captive audience, they are going to get theirs. I recently had to have a CT, I was there less than 2 hours and the bill was over $4500, folks not having health care is one of the reasons health care cost are so high. I don't think it really cost that much to run me through the microwave.

    To me the question is, is there a better way to redistribute health care cost; since the only real alternative is to refuse treatment to folks that can’t afford it, or choose not to have it. Some of the folks that disagree most strongly with Obamacare are the same folks that will take their kids to the emergency room for a runny nose and leave the hospital stuck with the bill. I don’t know if AHCA is the best final answer or not…but it is a plan, and the republicans haven’t offered one at all.

    And in response to put it to a vote of the people; we did it was called the 2012 election. The only firm plan the republicans offered was to repeal Obamacare. Mitt lost.

    There is a legislative process for changing laws you don’t like; how about going that route instead of shutting down the government, threating to default on debts we have already incurred and just generally throwing a temper tantrum if you don’t get your way.
    Freestone and Lugan like this.
  9. Chris Bellows The Thought Train

    Posts: 1,718
    The Salt
    Ratings: +876 / 0
    tea party politicians and supporters are a mix of :

    [IMG]

    and...

    [IMG]

    just a bunch of anti-government zealots with suits and ties to make them look respectable.
  10. Chris DeLeone Active Member

    Posts: 526
    Monroe, WA
    Ratings: +90 / 0
  11. Chris DeLeone Active Member

    Posts: 526
    Monroe, WA
    Ratings: +90 / 0
    Jeff Sawyer
    I don’t know if AHCA is the best final answer or not…but it is a plan, and the republicans haven’t offered one at all.
    Jeff - Here are a number of plans offered by republicans - you like many other Americans need to pay more attention to your Congress
    Comprehensive Republican health reform plans introduced in Congress
    Let’s start with 5 comprehensive health reform proposals that have actually been introduced in Congress—some well before President Obama even was nominated for president, and all months before the House (11/7/09) or Senate (12/24/09) voted on what eventually became Obamacare.
    Comprehensive conservative Obamacare replacement plans
    Likewise, conservative market-oriented health policy scholars have developed a rich menu of potential replacement plans for Obamacare:
  12. freestoneangler Not to be confused with Freestone

    Posts: 4,155
    Edgewood, WA
    Ratings: +797 / 1
    And you consistently demonstrate your inability to maintain composure and not spew crap all over the front of yourself when type speaking...seems someone is letting their cyber-muscles get the better of them.

    There are hard lines along both sides; each failing to see themselves in that light when all they need to do is look into a mirror. I do not favor a government run health care system, because the US government has a long, lousy track record of managing programs like this and health care in particular is far too personal an area to have them mucking things up. My position on this would be no different if it was a Republican, Libertarian, or Anarchist party. Sure it needs improvement, but there are a number of other options besides federal government run plans -- check out Ben Carson's website if you are open minded enough to do so.

    Now try and not soil yourself this time around.
  13. Flyborg Active Member

    Posts: 2,313
    Kalama, WA
    Ratings: +604 / 0
    You misunderstand me. I'm perfectly fine with being a douchetard; I actually look forward to your asshattery as it gives me an opportunity to do the same.
  14. freestoneangler Not to be confused with Freestone

    Posts: 4,155
    Edgewood, WA
    Ratings: +797 / 1
    Apologies Bass-Turds... much as we try, we simply cannot help ourselves and it appears another one is headed down the proverbial...

    toilet bowl.jpg
  15. Evan Burck Fudge Dragon

    Posts: 6,503
    Duvall, wa
    Ratings: +1,706 / 2
    +1. I, for one, would love to see a more sane republican party come back. I don't play for either established team, but tend to lean waaaaay left. But I think the balance is pretty important. It just sucks that the right side is being overrun with crazy as of late.
    Jeff Sawyer, Lugan and plaegreid like this.
  16. freestoneangler Not to be confused with Freestone

    Posts: 4,155
    Edgewood, WA
    Ratings: +797 / 1
    -1. I, for one, would love to see a more sane democratic party come back. I don't play for either established team, but tend to lean a little right of center. But I think the balance is pretty important. It just sucks that the left side is being overrun with crazy as of late.

    ...that mirror thing at work again ;)
  17. plaegreid Saved by the buoyancy of citrus

    Posts: 615
    Renton, WA
    Ratings: +759 / 0
    Bring back the Bull Moose party! #zombieRoosevelt2016
  18. Evan Burck Fudge Dragon

    Posts: 6,503
    Duvall, wa
    Ratings: +1,706 / 2
    I'm not a fan of either team (D or R). But the brand of crazy that is becoming the loudest voice on the right is one that rubs me in the worst of ways.
    underachiever and Lugan like this.
  19. Lugan Joe Streamer

    Posts: 2,401
    Beautiful View, WA
    Ratings: +774 / 2
    Too bad this thread got testy. It was a pretty civil discussion for a while.

    I'm surprised a moderator hasn't jumped in. Chris, Jerry and Ed must be off the grid together floating the Smith or MF Salmon.
    Dave Kaiserman likes this.
  20. Evan Burck Fudge Dragon

    Posts: 6,503
    Duvall, wa
    Ratings: +1,706 / 2
    Actually, I think it's going well. We're disagreeing without flinging crap at each other. I don't think civil disagreement is a bad thing. I've seen threads go way, way worse than this. In the end, we all want this shutdown to be done and over with. We all want to see those govt employees out of work to get back to putting food on the table. We disagree on who should get health care and how, but it doesn't seem to be getting uncivil.
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