NFR LOL government in a nutshell

Discussion in 'Fly Fishing Forum' started by Evan Virnoche, Oct 4, 2013.

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  1. Chris DeLeone Active Member

    Posts: 519
    Monroe, WA
    Ratings: +88 / 0
    This is extortion, and hostage tactics being forced by a minority who has lost and has no other way out. I can't believe what they're doing is even legal.

    Evan
    The Republicans won the majority of the House again in the last election - with that win regardless if you agree with it or not - they have the ability to provide checks and balances - Congress has always had the power to attach almost any condition - including repealing or changing a law - to appropriations. The founders wrote the Constitution that way for good reason.
    The nations first plan of government, the Articles of Confederation, had no president. When the framers gathered in 1787 to write a second more effective plan they reluctantly created the presidency. the founders worried that a president would tax and spend flagrantly as they had seen of the kings of Europe.

    To prevent that, the founders created checks and balances. to check each branch of government is "effectually checked and restrained by others" Congress was given the power over the purse - the power to appropriate money and to borrow it or raise taxes, because of location, the power in Congress would force the president to constantly negotiate with Congress. It also gave the veto power to the President, as you well know

    So don't worry its not extortion its legal and really how things should work. If the Republicans don't navigate well through this - the people will speak and they will be voted out by the people - another check and balance

    On another note:
    This is not the ACA that was passed in 2010 - here are a few items that are different from the law passed in 2010 -
    the President is "illegally" picking and choosing what part to keep - Gone is the employer mandate, the cap on out-of-pocket expenses, income verification for subsidy recipients and over half the deadlines in the law.
    These are shifts of billions of dollars in cost on to the tax payers, cheat seriousy ill patients, leave employees in the lurch all in a devious attempt to patch up a unworkable law from 2010.

    Congress is there to protect and defend the Constitution, and withholding the money is the chief way of doing it.

    Take Care

  2. Evan Burck Fudge Dragon

    Posts: 6,288
    Duvall, wa
    Ratings: +1,497 / 2
    You glossed over the fact that if it went to vote today, the budget would pass Congress with plenty of Republicans voting in favor. What defense in this "checks and balanaces" is there to defend their tactic of preventing a vote?
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  3. Chris DeLeone Active Member

    Posts: 519
    Monroe, WA
    Ratings: +88 / 0
    I don't think a bill with funding for ObamaCare would pass the House - but having that power, just like Senator Reid has shown you have the ability to bring things to a vote or not.
  4. Evan Burck Fudge Dragon

    Posts: 6,288
    Duvall, wa
    Ratings: +1,497 / 2
    If it wouldn't pass a vote, then Boehner wouldn't be blocking the vote. At least 20 Republicans have said they would vote in favor of the clean budget bill, which is all they need.
    dfl likes this.
  5. Kaiserman content

    Posts: 2,506
    Ratings: +365 / 0
    Don't forget, there were lot of other "neat things" attached to the AHCA bill when it passed. Ya all should look them up.
  6. Chris DeLeone Active Member

    Posts: 519
    Monroe, WA
    Ratings: +88 / 0
    Evan - It may be coming - but I have't seen it yet

    http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-250_162...otes-for-clean-spending-bill-to-end-shutdown/

    Im not up to the minute on the votes or where they stand but I do know this - the federal employees not working will get back pay, our debt ceiling will go up, as well will our debt. American will give more control of their lives to government. I think I once read you were not going to have kids - be thankful you didn't, its hard watching this country turn into unproductive Western Europe.

    Have a good night Gentlemen - I have to go do homework with my girls
  7. Flyborg Active Member

    Posts: 2,286
    Kalama, WA
    Ratings: +589 / 0
    I doubt it ever was. It smelled like grandstanding from the beginning.
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  8. Evan Burck Fudge Dragon

    Posts: 6,288
    Duvall, wa
    Ratings: +1,497 / 2
    Give examples of the ones you're most concerned about.
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  9. freestoneangler Not to be confused with Freestone

    Posts: 3,736
    Edgewood, WA
    Ratings: +618 / 1
    They could always use the "taking my toys and flee" tactic...

    http://www.nbcnews.com/id/41644074/...-union-vote-hold-after-democrats-leave-state/

    ...I don't recall, did we ever decide whether that was legal or a form of extortion?

    I have heard both good and bad from Canadians I speak with about their health care system. What they like least is having so little control over decisions made and excessive wait time for treatments. So in the end, its highly likely we end up with the same amount of pros and cons, but paying more for it and, if it follows the other federal government programs of like scale, goes broke from bad management practices by people who fall into Milton Friedman's last category of how money is spent -- "other people's money for other people".

    Another little riddle is why, if America's medical system is so torrid, people flock here form all points of the globe to partake...similarly why many of those who are so enamored with nationalized health care systems of other countries aren't leaving?
  10. tatross New Member

    Posts: 1
    rockport, wa.
    Ratings: +0 / 0
    I own and operate a small resort in the North Cascades specifically in the Ross Lake Recreation area. I operate under a concession contract from the national park service. Last Thursday I was ordered to remove my guests by 3 pm and close my doors until further notice. My occupancy rate is over 95% percent during the month of October and the fishing has been great this fall. To top it off one of my staff was out fishing on his day off and was contacted by the rangers and told to get off the lake no recreating was allowed. At least they are willing to let us remain on "my" property for maintenance reasons. In my 42 years of living here I have never seen anything like this. Fat chance my lost income or wages of the 8 staff members I had to let go will be reimbursed. Pissed off does not even begin to express my anger.
  11. Flyborg Active Member

    Posts: 2,286
    Kalama, WA
    Ratings: +589 / 0
    That's funny. I know quite a few American's who travel to Mexico for medical/dental tourism.
  12. Kaiserman content

    Posts: 2,506
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    "concerned about" is rather strong, but question on face value, is a whole different thing. Things that by themselves, wouldn't stand a chance getting passed. However, that's how politics has been played forever. I'm not going to list them, because am a true believer in doing one's own "homework", as it's been said.

    I will say this (not that it needs to be said), but I don't watch Fox News, Rush L., Shawn H., Glenn Beck, NBC, or any other network. I don't even have cable TV. If I do watch anything, on a given topic, I try to watch all the ones I have access to (on the same subject) to see how it's covered - or if it even is covered.
  13. PT Physhicist

    Posts: 3,498
    Edmonds, WA
    Ratings: +653 / 1
    Here's a C&P from elsewhere. It is the system we have, and even though it may be just a few holding it up, I'd rather have them bickering over this now rather than writing another blank check. I say shut 'em down a few months anyway just because.

    Love this! Trying to actually budget with the budget process - the audacity!

    And dear mr POTUS: In regards to the upcoming debt ceiling issue and your refusal to "negotiate". Don't we have the right to know and decide what the loan is for before we authorize it?

    Regardless of where you come down on the individual budget issues, and given our current depth of debt, I don't think we should be handing out any more "blank checks" to our leaders. To authorize more borrowing and spending without questioning "what for" would be completely irresponsible.

    That said, I don't think the house, senate or POTUS did their jobs well to negotiate, compromise and avoid a shutdown.

    And that said, I think a positive coming out of the shutdown is the media giving a lot of education to otherwise low-information voters about our indebtedness and lack of a budget. Also exposes a lot of "good" government programs that we simply cannot afford. Just because a program does good does not mean we can or should pay for it.

    There are a ton of good and profitable things I can do for my children if only I had the money. I just need to find a credit card that has an ever-increasing credit limit that I don't really have to worry about paying back! Fantasy? Sure! But seems to work for our federal government. Who's really messing with the full faith and credit of the US?

    I don't buy the "but we just want to pay the bills we've already incurred" bu!!$ht from the pres. OK, fine, we'll cover you this time but . . . we sure as he[[ want to talk about what we're spending before giving you the credit card to wrack up more debt!

    Just my humble, non-C&P thoughts.

    What say others who like to dismiss opposing thoughts as partisan nonsense?
    wik likes this.
  14. Evan Burck Fudge Dragon

    Posts: 6,288
    Duvall, wa
    Ratings: +1,497 / 2
    Man.. I can't even begin to fathom being put in to that situation. For your sake and those like you, I hope this gets resolved real quick like.
  15. Jeff Sawyer New to Washington...

    Posts: 407
    Tacoma WA
    Ratings: +186 / 0


    I can assure you those Jack Wads in DC have more of my attention than they deserve or have earned.

    I was furloughed one day a week for six weeks this summer because of the Sequester, essentially cutting my pay 20%.

    Now just weeks later, I spent another week as a pawn in their fucking game. Boss told us today that yes we will get paid for it, but they're not sure when.

    The news just broke in and said that unless something is done before mid Oct that VA payments that are suppose to come out 1 Nov won't happen. (At least not on-time).

    So these MFs have my undivided attention.

    And actually I stand corrected on the Republicans not offering anything, actually the individual mandate was originally a Republican idea...and it was Romneycare before it was Obamacare.

    I didn't spend the hours it would probably take to go through the links you provided and try to decipher the plans, but looks like the the common denominator is a Tax Credit between 1500 and 2500. My Dad who's healthy as a horse but happens to be 63 recently wanted to retire couldn't because he found out Healthcare was going to cost $700 a month. That'll eat up a $1500 tax credit pretty quick.

    But the real bottom line is Obamacare passed both the house and senate and the president signed it...You might not like the way it did but it did. It is the law, like it or not. None of those Republican offers did. Again there are legislative processes to change laws you don't like.

    Taking the country hostage, threating to blow up the economy and jerking people around because they work for the federal government, or failing to provide the VA benefits to our vets in a timely manner is a new low for the GOP.

    BTW in the not so distant past I used to vote GOP exclusively, however, the party I use to vote for no longer exist.












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  16. jessejames Flyslinger

    Posts: 1,826
    Show Low, Arizona
    Ratings: +311 / 3
    Your friends surgeries were likely paid for in full be their Canadian health care. They have a provision that if care is not available for some reason they will pay for you to go to the US with no out of pocket expenses.
    There are a lot of anecdotal stories like yours but they are a tiny % of healthcare issues. The latest polls show 91% of Canadians like their healthcare.
    dfl likes this.
  17. Chris DeLeone Active Member

    Posts: 519
    Monroe, WA
    Ratings: +88 / 0



    Thats funny - I used to vote D all the time, then I took a job in the private sector and don't see the party I once thought existed. I understand though the more the Fed spends the more likely you will get a raise and I can't blame ya for that.





    Thats funny - I used to vote D all the time, then I took a job in the private sector and don't see the party I once thought existed. I understand though the more the Fed spends the more likely you will get a raise and I can't blame ya for that.
  18. Chris DeLeone Active Member

    Posts: 519
    Monroe, WA
    Ratings: +88 / 0
    Thats funny - I used to vote D all the time, then I took a job in the private sector and don't see the party I once thought existed. I understand though the more the Fed spends the more likely you will get a raise and I can't blame ya for that.
  19. Richard Olmstead BigDog

    Posts: 2,423
    Seattle, WA
    Ratings: +692 / 0
    Is there an echo in here?
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  20. astrofisher Clear Skies

    Posts: 198
    Tenino, Wa.
    Ratings: +53 / 0
    "You've got it all wrong, the issue here ain't pussy. The issue here is monkey."
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