musings on the gun control issue

Discussion in 'Cast & Blast' started by Alex MacDonald, Jan 31, 2013.

  1. Alex MacDonald Dr. of Doomology

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    I was ruminating on this over my morning coffee after reading about Giffords' plaintive appeal in the paper this morning: I agree that something should be done, but it's not the firearms that cause the problem any more than it's that machete lying dormant in your basement.

    First, universal background checks aren't a bad thing, BUT the NRA has a valid point: what's the purpose of the check, if you're not going to prosecute those who lie on the form (a felony, by the way). If a universal requirement was also followed by universal prosecution for falsification, I'd favor it. And it should be applied to private sales as well. Let's leave the "inheritance" issue alone for now.

    Second, this "mental health" issue is a red herring; medical people are ALREADY required to report those who they believe will go bonkers to law enforcement (shrinks, chime in here?)

    Third, a storage requirement would pretty much eliminate the utility of any firearm to be used for defense within a home, so that won't work,either. This brings me to my thought on the actual question of the debate: is this for lunatic/criminal control as a means of preventing this outrageous violence, or is it's purpose to disarm a society completely so the people who have a phobia about guns will "feel safe"?

    I don't have any answer here if the question's to prevent the loony tunes from whacking people, but... the availability of firearms I don't believe is at the heart of the issue. When I was a kid, you could walk into any hardware store in the nation and walk out with an M1 Carbine, hi-cap mags and all, or a Garand, both battle rifles with a decent capacity and quick reloading ability. There were NO crazies blowing kids away in schools, so this looks like it's some sort of cultural or sociological issue. The crazies were there, for sure, but something else is going on now that wasn't present then.

    The sad thing is: while a University study to determine if the bubble curtain in a glass of Guinness actually goes down received a grant, but effects of violent video gaming? Haven't seen any. this may not have anything to do with the issue, either. Another thing that has drastically changed is the way we educate our kids. When I was a kid, and you were bullied, it was up to you to defend yourself-the school wouldn't do anything about it. If you did smack the other kid, nothing usually happened to you. Now, the school really doesn't do anything about bullying, but God forfend if you smack the asshole-you're outta there! Has society deteriorated so far, with unwed mothers all over the place, schools punishing those who try to stand up for themselves, Tuba Man murderers repeatedly let go after they commit yet another crime, little or no consequences for criminals of all stripes.

    Then, there's Switzerland, where the military is primarily housed in their own homes, along with their fully automatic weapons. Their military is all able-bodied men; it's a national requirement. Don't hear about a lot of gun violence there, do we. Why is that, do you think? Just wondering... And musing.
  2. wyofly Active Member

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    Alex MacDonald likes this.
  3. ribka Active Member

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  4. Roper Idiot Savant

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    It's all smoke and mirrors, meant to look like they're doing something about it, in truth it's an empty shell.If everyone was so concerned about out children why are so many of them obese? Why do they have to inhale second hand smoke? Why do we feed them GMO foods? Why are most "tweeners" smoking pot or worse smoking crack? Speaking of drug "control", how's that working for them? In Mexico you can see exactly how gun control will work on a national level. The populace at large will be disarmed and gangs will rule with full auto weapons that overpower the police.

    The pussy-fication of our country is almost complete. In a world where it's news that Gomer Pyle finally married his homosexual partner is news, what can we expect?

    I'm beginning to be envious of my parents, both of whom are in the ground. I wish I was born in another time. What language do they speak in Switzerland?
  5. Ed Call Mumbling Moderator

    Posts: 17,593
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    The girls I'm raising don't do those things. When with me they don't even have access to mind numbing TV. The girls I coach are teens making the right choices (but could work on healthier eating habits). I fear they in he minority of their peers.

    I think I'm a younger dinosaur.

    This process and accountability must change so those that are unfit for firearms are limited from getting them. They may break the law to get them, but the system lets them do that with no penalty.
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  6. Alex MacDonald Dr. of Doomology

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    for all of us who believe we're dinosaurs: we're not plant eaters, guys. Think Tyrannosaur; do you feel lucky, little vegan??
  7. Roper Idiot Savant

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    I'm thinking pterodactyl...I always wanted to fly...
  8. nomlasder Active Member

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    Some problems, such as Big Bang and Chicken or Egg, just don't have an answer and can only be debated. Reasonable people will do reasonable things...........as for the rest of the group????
  9. wadin' boot Donny, you're out of your element...

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    Alex, not a shrink but deal with lots of neurologically impaired people...it's a hard thing to report someone who is impulsive and depressed and otherwise able to carry on a conversation and act fine face-to-face in a visit. Not only that, but reporting a psychotic whacko that you just had to deal with face-to-face who, although they didn't threaten you, they know where you work etc etc...and then schedule follow-up ...that takes some courage.

    Probably about 40% of folks I see are depressed. Stable on meds or otherwise. Do you draw the line with someone who is doing well on meds, or the fact they were once depressed? It's impulsive folks with depression that are most likely to use a firearm on themselves or their family, that group helps drive the big numbers of firearms related deaths.

    As the baby boomers enter their 70's, the Alzheimer's prevalence is going to shoot way, way up. Even now the fastest growing demographic is folks over age 85. The fact is we can keep hearts and lungs healthy now, better than ever before. Not brains though. After age 32 or so we slowly lose it such that by age 85 there's a 35-50% chance that any of us will have Alzheimers. That's a lot of unreasonable and paranoid people to deal with....(neither here nor there, but I suspect this douchebag -Jimmy Lee Dykes, 65- holding the kid hostage in his Alabama bunker currently is probably an early Alzheimer kind of deal.)
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  10. bennysbuddy the sultan of swing

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    At the tender age of 52 reading this makes me depressed, your prediction of where I'm headed is a bummer Doc. I'll be calling to get an appointment
  11. Kirke New Member

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  12. Kirke New Member

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    Well I do not post much as I read. I also try and listen more than I rant and rave.l I would first like to say this is what I believe as a very proud American. Our forefathers wrote the constitution and the bill of rights for our protection from the government, Freedom to assemble. freedom of speech, protection from search and seizure, eaqule rights , all men created equal. Well I will say President Obama and Vice President Biden kudos for an attempt to curb violence. Shame on you both for in public and on record swearing to oath of office to protect and defend the Constitution of the United State of America. Then in the first week of your second term attack the the Constitution namely the second amendment. Shame on both of you. I had $.02 to spend now I'm finished. Thank you for reading it.
  13. wadin' boot Donny, you're out of your element...

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    Don't call me BennyB, just keep fit....that's about as sophisticated as we can get...exercise till the day you die...
  14. Dorylf Oregon Member

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    I am stunned that so many people actually think passing one law or another will make a difference.

    For example: pass a law that prohibits guns in schools. Come on. Seriously?! People actually think that will fix it?!

    Can they possibly think any of the whackos that shot up a school in the past would have checked the regulations and said: "Oh, crap! Guess I'll have to change my plans. I can't go shoot kids at a school because I just spotted this new law that says I can't take my gun there."

    That takes naive to a new high.

    Just look at existing laws to see how effective that would be. Are there not laws that say felons cannot possess firearms? How's that workin' for you? Never happens, right?

    Same with magazine capacity. Can a sane person really believe that a bad guy bank robber will ditch the 13-round magazine because a law says he can only have a 7-rounder? Sheesh!

    Of course I want to see some kind of real, meaningful answer. Everybody does. But, virtually everything I'm hearing proposed will simply result in the disarming or taking of rights of good law-abiding citizens and won't make a whit of difference for the way criminals, bad guys or the insane act.

    People need to understand that this is complicated and there are no easy answers. It's going to take real work and not knee-jerk, feel-good laws that do more harm than good.
  15. ribka Active Member

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  16. Dave Alberts Member

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    As is suggested by others, laws and regulations are for the law abiding... Put the onus on the law breakers and make the penalties such that any mentally competent person will recognize the error of their ways... if they are not mentally competent, sorry.

    For example: Commit a crime with a firearm...minimum 5 years; discharge a firearm during the commission of a crime...minimum 10 years; kill someone during the commission of a crime...mandantory life; kill multiple people or first responder during the commission of a crime...the big needle. No pleas, no deals. There is no excuse nor rational explanation for the action of wackos that are making news today.

    Looking at the number of weapons held by law abiding citizens of the USA (300 million or more), compared to the number of (non suicide) deaths attributed to all firearms (5k or so), it is very clear that law abiding firearm owners rank very high on the responsibility scale.
  17. wichaka Active Member

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    Being an LEO, I can say first hand the justice system is broken and depends on the almighty dollar. If the case is too spendy to take to trial, it will be plead out or worse, dismissed. Not disregarding gunlaws, but most all laws are for the honest person.

    Those who commit such atrocities are like terrorists with bombs strapped to themselves. They have nothing to lose. They have no job, family (for the most part), nothing to show for their years on this planet. So what does the little if any type of justice correct in their behavior? Nothing.

    If our laws and punishment were more like those countries that have much less crime problem, we'd all be better off. The next time a thief gets caught, hack off a finger. A burglar, they lose an arm.

    Growing up there was always that deterrent from the parents if we did wrong, even that has been pushed aside.
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  18. Upton O Blind hog fisherman

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    In reference to retaining folks with mental health issues: can't do it unless they demonstrate that they are at risk to injure themselves or others. Demonstrate is the operant word here. And then you can only retain them until they are no longer a risk to self or others. This is the issue with President Regan's shooter. He keeps demonstrating that he can't be turned loose.

    The ACLU filed suit many years ago on behalf of patients that were held in mental institutions against their will. Courts ruled that the mentally ill have a right to freedom if they don't harm themselves or others and they can, then, live homeless, sick, tired, wet, cold, hungry and unmedicated along with their mental illness.

    Professionals do have a responsibility to warn if there is reason to believe their client is going to hurt himself or others. This was the case of the Denver shooter, I believe.

    Over the years, I worked with about a half of a dozen men who were fully capable of mass killing and neither laws or conscience have any impact on them and their behavior. If you notice, many/most of the mass killer commit suicide at the end of their rampage. It's the last "screw you, I'm in control" gesture. These are very scary guys.

    Laws are written to guide those who follow them, those who don't, well, they won't.
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  19. gofish101 Member

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    As a Proud Canadian and one that doesn't chime in all that often what I saw happen at Newtown sickened me. The debate going on now in your country has me baffled. For example on this thread I see blame on gov., aclu, video games and on and on and maybe I've missed something but the quantity and type of firearms are not an issue. I see that as an integral part of the solution. I don't see any solutions unless ALL options are on the table. The laws in Canada are very different and I don't claim to fully understand the dynamics involved with this complex issue but one thing I do feel strongly about is children should not be slaughtered and change is needed or this will happen again all to soon.
    just my .02
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  20. Ed Call Mumbling Moderator

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    I can recall getting my first required mental health screening as a military weapons handler. I was a law enforcement unit leader, showed up, full duty gear reflecting my on duty status. Yup, armed and being screened. Stranger still, the Psychiatrist assigned was a very good friend. I always get a chuckle reflecting on how strange the system worked to mandate a screening , but have no regard for what was on my duty belt or who was tasked with "getting to know me".