musings on the gun control issue

Discussion in 'Cast & Blast' started by Alex MacDonald, Jan 31, 2013.

  1. Upton O

    Upton O Blind hog fisherman

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    Ed, did you notice whether your friend sat at a desk that was between the two of you and he also had a quick exit path/avenue to the office door? And you never know what he had in one of those desk drawers.:)
     
  2. Alex MacDonald

    Alex MacDonald Dr. of Doomology

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    Just yesterday, an Arlington man with a concealed pistol permit fired a shot in the air to get a guy with a knife to stop chasing a woman. The knife wielder was apprehended by other people as soon as he realized the guy with the gun was serious. Our Canadian brother on the preceding page wonders what's wrong with people that they would want to do stupid things like this, and I can't agree more! You want to look at them and ask "what the fuck's wrong with you???".

    Personally, having been forced to use my firearms FIVE TIMES in defense of home & self while living in Sacramento-never fired a shot, mind you, but the 12bore muzzle has a surprisingly calming effect on somebody waving a small pistol-I'm getting to the point that i feel the more of these losers who are shot down in the street like the mad dogs they are, the better. Possibly; just possibly, the message out there is that, well, there must be a reason why you need to act crazy, and we'll take pity on you and find out why. I'm thinking "who gives a shit-just plug the bastard". I suppose you'd say my message is "don't act like that: bad things happen to those who do". Today, I'm thinking maybe that's the message these scum need to hear.

    I also think we're not going to find any solution to this problem, so the "gubmint" will take the easy way out (when DON'T they take it?) and try to ban stuff. Like that'll make a difference.
     
  3. Ed Call

    Ed Call Mumbling Moderator Staff Member

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    Nothing between us but a little space, air and friendship. I'm sure my armed presence in his office did not raise his heart rate at all.
     
  4. SteveA

    SteveA Gnu to the board

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    Why do you say that? When away from home, locking your firearms wouldn't be a self-defense issue, but keeps them from being burgled. When you are at home you don't need to lock them, unless there are kids around. Even then there are a variety of quick access safes available.

    In my mind, keeping firearms out of the hands of those that shouldn't have them is the responsibility of every firearm owner.
     
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  5. Upton O

    Upton O Blind hog fisherman

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    Just poking fun at you, Ed.
     
  6. Roper

    Roper Idiot Savant

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    You missed the part about only law abiding people abide by the law. The nut jobs and criminals don't care and won't care what law is on the books. They already violated the oldest one, "thou shalt not kill". So it won't matter at all what "gun control" measures are passed, they will still be out of control. There is no guarantee of security in life and those who give up their freedom for the promise of security deserve neither one...
     
  7. Alex MacDonald

    Alex MacDonald Dr. of Doomology

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    I wasn't clear here, Steve; my bad. I should have said "when you're not home".
     
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  8. Ed Call

    Ed Call Mumbling Moderator Staff Member

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    I know. Sad thing is that I have not had contact with that friend for some time. I'm going to change that soon.

    Locking up hardware is a good plan. It can be balanced with quick access. Locking up need not be a vault.
     
  9. ribka

    ribka Active Member

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    On the east side have seen more than one instance where a large gun safe was removed from the residence with a chain and a truck.

    When they want them they will get them. The Tweekers and gang bangers are very resourceful and persistent when it comes to stealing firearms.

    Have seen marked police and WDFW vehicles broken into and firearms stolen from them.

    The small quick access safes are a joke and just ripped off the wall by criminals.
     
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  10. Dorylf

    Dorylf Oregon Member

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    Right. Only legit purpose is keeping kids from getting at guns. No way they'd stop a crook.
     
  11. ribka

    ribka Active Member

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    gunban.jpg Looks like the WH is now supporting gun ownership
     
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  12. Alex MacDonald

    Alex MacDonald Dr. of Doomology

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    "Have seen marked police and WDFW vehicles broken into and firearms stolen from them."

    Do you suppose Kerlikowski's weapon was ever recovered? What a Maroon!
     
  13. Salmo_g

    Salmo_g Active Member

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    Alex,

    A good thread and good post.

    I don't know. I wish I did. There are numerous discussions to have on this subject, American gun culture, values, social break down, etc. But the one I keep coming back to is, how is it that many Americans believe we can solve the problem by passing gun control laws, when by all objective analyses it won't and doesn't. If objective analysis fails, then subjective, visceral analysis must be what people are using, which is my way of saying that emotional, feel good efforts are necessary, even though it doesn't change the outcome.

    Frankly I'm more afraid of a nation consisting of so many who analyze by emotion rather than logic than I am of the next school shooting, which we logically know is statistically an infrequent but highly dramatic event.

    Sg
     
  14. gofish101

    gofish101 Member

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    It may be infrequent but one child slaughtered is one to many. It seems to me that these infrequencies are becoming more frequent and that is the concern I have. How many children have to be slaughtered before it is time to try to address this issue, 1, 10, 100. Last year it was a theater and a school that I know of and I'm from Canada maybe I've missed some. I agree that emotions play a role in the thinking process but logic tells me this slaughtering of innocent people has to end some how. Hopefully it's not to the point of no return.
     
  15. obiwankanobi

    obiwankanobi Active Member

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    Its because the data and facts do not support that reducing the quantity and type will have a direct impact on diminishing the murder rate. More people die each year through the use of blunt objects than from rifles including those that are deemed assult rifles. Handguns make up the majority of murders and the sad truth is that there are more than plenty handguns in circulation today where a criminal can get his hands on one to commit a crime. Making it hard or impossible for legal and sane law abiding Americans to buy guns to protect themselves and their familes only make it easier for criminals to commit violent crimes.

    The fact is if Adam Lanza and James Holmes used their mom's Yukon Denali loaded with extra cans of gas to crash into a movie theater or kindergarten then gun control would not even be hot topic right now. The focus would be on metal health, violence in entertainment, championing criminals on the news, etc. Since this administration needs a derailment from balancing the budget right now, gun control is the major focus.
     
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  16. Salmo_g

    Salmo_g Active Member

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    Gofish101,

    We can agree that one child killed is one too many, and then look at the statistics. Oh, one or more children are killed every day in the U.S. We can say it's too many, no matter the number, but the genie is out of the bottle. There are between 250 and 300 million firearms in circulation in the U.S., with 311 million people. The genie cannot be put back in the bottle, short of massive gun confiscation. And no politician is proposing that. Instead measures that will have no measurable effect in reducing firearm murder are proposed by often well-intentioned people who have to be thinking with their hearts and not with their heads. That's why I called it emotional, feel good measures. Except one. Universal background checks for all arms, not just handguns, and private as well as dealer sales, does have the potential to reduce firearm fatalities, but most likely the number would be small. And then only if the law is well enforced. As Alex points out in his initial post, the existing requirements are not consistently enforced.

    It's not that many, if any, of us don't want to address the issue. It's just that we are thinking logically and don't want to pretend to address firearm murder with feel good emotional measures that clearly will not measurably affect the outcome.

    Sg
     
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  17. gofish101

    gofish101 Member

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    You may be right that more people die from a blunt object, but how many times do 20 children and 6 teachers get slaughtered in a school in minutes from a blunt object? Or if a nutcase entered a theater with a blunt object and started assaulting people how long would he last before someone took him down and would there have been any deaths.
    In fact I have never used the term gun control. What I have said and am saying again is that this is a complex issue that requires all options to be on the table.
    I don't believe this is a conspiracy to get rid of guns or to take attention off the budget. I truly believe that most Americans and Canadians are sick and tired of innocent people being slaughtered and that is why the debate is going on. The fact that school children are involved only made people more passionate to try to change things.
     
  18. tkww

    tkww Member

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    This is the point I keep coming back to in my thinking. That ship has sailed. Even if another gun was never purchased ever again, how long till we'd actually see a reduction? Decades? Centuries?

    On top of this we have the simple fact that banning things rarely works well in this country. Prohibition brought us organized crime. The 'war on drugs' has brought us gangs (and cartels in other countries). I'm not saying the reverse--unrestricted access-- is always the best case. But it's hard to make the case that if millions of americans want something, making it illegal reduces crime.

    There's also the minor fact that most of the gun violence in this country is crime-related--criminal on criminal or otherwise involving criminal enterprise--drugs, trafficking, etc. So we're talking about a segment that already disrespects the law and/or specializing in trafficking illegal things. I bet a ban is really going to help there.

    I'd like to see mental health care become much more widely available and much more affordable. I would like to see an honest attempt to enforce existing laws, and ratchet up the punishment for trafficking of guns--straw purchases, family/friends buying for or giving to others, etc. I realize that's asking something from the same agency that shipped guns to the cartels in mexico, but I digress.
     
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  19. ribka

    ribka Active Member

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    gun registration just ended in Canada because it did not work. I know RCMP has been seeing an increase in firearms related violence including handguns violence. Virtually impossible to legally own a handgun in Canada.

    England, Australia, Chicago seeing the same increase in violence even though ownership of firearms is highly regulated.

    Stated before but the rural homes where I grew up had multiple firearms in it Openly displayed on gun racks and /or glass door cabinets. No one locked their homes or vehicles. Every truck in the high school parking lot had 2 to 3 shotguns rifles displayed in the rear window rack. Zero firearms related violence.

    I think that is a clue that firearms are not the problem.

     
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  20. bennysbuddy

    bennysbuddy the sultan of swing

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    If you really what to end all the senseless whole sale killings in the world all you need to do is ban religion. In all the centuries of recorded history more people have been killed in the name of god than for any other reason. Thats what our current war on terrorism is all about, the oil is just a side bennifit
     

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