NFR: How do you pack your firearm when fishing?

Discussion in 'Fly Fishing Forum' started by Peter Pancho, Mar 12, 2009.

  1. Coach Duff

    Coach Duff Banned or Parked

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    The last time I checked freedom of speech had a place in our country also. And if you don't book a trip with me because I happened to have seen a whole lot of the effects of bullets and have shitloads of combat handgun training and also know first hand that the average untrained (that's most of you, shooting at the range is not the training you need to change muscle memory and in effect become proficient with a handgun, proper unholstering, weapons retention, magazine changes, offhand, ect) person actually is putting THEMSELVES in danger carrying, not the bad guy then have a great day with someone else. I fought for those amendments you tried to dust off and throw around. Next you'll call my 25 months in combat zones in spec ops un American too right? No that's the NRA approach, to accuse responsible minded Americans who support personal gun ownership but believe in doing it the right way with some checks, balances and training. Some reality in effect. No my friend, nice try. I am simply saying that if you are not trained and ready, carrying a handgun especially a 9MM does nothing but put you in danger and give you the bullshit false confidence that will actually get you killed. Carrying a gun is your decision, a decision I support wholeheartedly if you feel you need to. I'm just hoping that you understand the 21 foot rule, ballistics, muscle memory, weapons retention, legal repurcussions, you own psyche, you own insecurities, the immediate and perceived threats (much of which is urban legand among anglers), how much your skills will be diminished under duress, what you will do if it goes to the ground (which is might) and lastly what your ROEs or Rules of Engagement will be in each terrain and or situation and do they fit the law? Not insulting you in any way, just throwing out some reality. So if that costs me a "trip" with you then so be it. I think most responsible, well trained, gun loving Americans feel the same way. It is a serious business and really serious when you draw that weapon. Lives are changed forever on both ends of that barrell. Everything better be justified and right. And Herl, that was funny as hell. Tight lines The Coach
    Coach
     
  2. Mike T

    Mike T Active Member

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    Hopefully we can get this one back on track. It could be of benefit for some.
     
  3. Trent

    Trent Ugly member

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    Coach Duff, you are a little off topic man. You have decent points, but Peter Pancho, asked for good ways to carry a cancealed weapon. That means holsters, carry positions and so on. Not about reasons to shoot people or what peoples opinions on firearms were.
    It is ignorant to assume that everyone who wants to carry a firearm dreams of being "Rambo" or something, that just insults peoples inteligance, hence putting them on the defensive. That means they are less likely to listen to the good points you bring up.
     
  4. gt

    gt Active Member

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    thats sort of a confused position, as-i-am. why would you be carrying a firearm in the first place if your intention was not to use it? coach has raised the significant issues that surround anyone's decision to carry and the physical training, legal ramifications not to mention the psychological fall out that will last a lifetime. coach has obviously BTDT, the points he raises need careful thoughful consideration as simply getting a CCP is the easy part.
     
  5. Peter Pancho

    Peter Pancho Active Member

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    Exactly :ray1:
     
  6. steelydan

    steelydan Newb seeking wisdom

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    Nicely said.

    My father would have said "if I want any shit out of you, I'll squeeze your head"
     
  7. Bullwhacker

    Bullwhacker Member

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    iagree

    Judging from all the unnecessary preaching, business must be slow on the island.
     
  8. David Loy

    David Loy Senior Moment

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    I know this thread has meandered from Peter's original RFI and am sorry to extend it.
    But, this much at least of Coach's commentary hits home. I've given this a lot of thought in the last few months. Even IF my shooting a scumbag was justified, I know I'd angst over the "what ifs" for a long long time. And, how does it change the light in which your kids and friends look at you? Not a problem you say? I'm not so sure.

    Peter - I very rarely carry. When/if I do, it's a 38 Airweight snub in a pocket holster. Most of the time I rely on charm, wit and jovial banter to win the day. :rolleyes:
    Four legged critters don't worry me.
     
  9. Mark Moore

    Mark Moore Just a Member

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    I, for one, would like to see anyone, especially a "newb seeking wisdom", try to squeeze shit out of Coaches head.

    A little respect goes a long way young man (assuming based on 45 posts and your BS attitude that you must be young, if not you are just stupid).:thumb:
     
  10. herl

    herl Member

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    I don't think there are any young Steely Dan fans..

    just sayin..
     
  11. Mark Moore

    Mark Moore Just a Member

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    Yeah, I didn't think so. However, there are probably a few that still act like DA teenagers.
     
  12. Coach Duff

    Coach Duff Banned or Parked

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    Okay gun toting flyfishing guys. Now for the million dollar question.

    WHY CONCEALED?

    ;)

    This is gonna be good................:D
     
  13. Coach Duff

    Coach Duff Banned or Parked

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    Steely Dan, your answer is the one I'd like most to hear. But all answers will be interesting at the worst. (And it's obvious you've all thought this out from both a tactical, psychological and functional standpoint!)

    WHY CONCEALED?
     
  14. jcalderon

    jcalderon Member

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    A JUNGLE NEAR YOU
    For Liability reasons "like duffer said" i would not conceal a backwoods pistol.


    *ANOTHER THING* and this is just my opinion, but if a man is carrying a "tactical" self defense pistol, like an HK, or, glock, or any other pistol serviced by military or law enforcement, it can, and probbaly will be "misinterperated" if you have to use it.

    What I am saying is, if i am carrying my HK USP.40 with a flashlight mount in a tactical holster ect, and I shoot someone I may be looked at differently than If i am carrying a .454 cassul ruger revolver in a non concealed "backwoods" holster.

    it sounds silly, cause clearly, the revolver is a much more "savage" wound to an individual, but it is much more PC to knock a mans arm off with a .454 than to injure somebody with a tactical weapon.
     
  15. KerryS

    KerryS Ignored Member

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    I have no good answer for you coach. I have thought about taking a gun along fishing and in fact have but mostly to blow up tree stumps or kill defenseless little critters. After thinking about why I would need one I figured the threat isn't there and if it were, one hand gun ain't going to get it done.

    I have fished with guys in Alaska that brought a hand gun along. Usually carried in the open on the hip and thought it was a good thing. At least for me. While they are shooting at a bear and pissing him off. I figure the bear is going to concentrate on them while I get my ass out of the area.

    Have I thought it through from a tactical, psychological or fuctional standpoint? Hardly, but I have looked at this using some common sense and packing a gun into the woods for anything other than hunting or targit shooting doesn't make any.
     
  16. Trent

    Trent Ugly member

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    Even though Washington State is an “Open Carry”, it is not the wisest way to carry a firearm in this state. This is do to RCW 9.41.270; this RCW basically means (in my own words), that it is illegal to carry with the intent to intimidate. What that means is simple, say you are just standing there minding your own business and fishing, when someone else enters the same area; you do not know they are there, but they see you, your gun, and feel threatened. This will likely get the cops called, and yes even though you did not mean to threaten them, they still felt threatened; hence you are now in trouble. There are a lot of people out there who are needlessly afraid of firearms and there are people who just don’t like them. So essentially legal technicalities are why I choose to conceal it most of the time, this depends on situation and location.

    P.S.
    This can be viewed as a good tactical way not to get in trouble with the law. It is phsychologicaly good for you not to take a trip to jail or pay some fines. It is also a more functional means for you to spend your time with a fishing pole in hand instead of spending your time talking to a judge.
     
  17. Ed Call

    Ed Call Mumbling Moderator Staff Member

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    I once got told that I could not eat in an open mess while armed and providing security for those entrusted to me. The complaintant stated they felt intimidated and scared in the close proximity of handguns. I thought that was a bunch of shit.

    Sorry off track.
     
  18. west_jay

    west_jay Member

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    Nice job!

    I was scared this thread might end. :beer2:
     
  19. Coach Duff

    Coach Duff Banned or Parked

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    Your interpretation of the law is incorrect, you have never even tried to wear a firearm in the open it shows and it is obvious. I have never been harrassed in any way wearing a firearm in the woods (where all of you claim to be digging deep into while flyfishing). I quit my gun ownership and carrying many years ago, (but have nothing against any of it if there is some kind of intelligence or foresight put into it.) I do have something against complete untrained, dumbasses carrying "HEAT" as you call it around me on flyfising rivers. Number one I don't trust most of your interpretations into why and where you need deadly force and over the years have found more concealed carry BUBBAS to really be pussies and insecure little boys. The gun is simply an extension of their physical, social and communication imperfections which we all possess. I also know some damn fine well trained concealed carry folks who know when and whey they are carrying and I respect them 100%. It 's an American right. You have taken this personally which lends to good comedy. So someone else.......... Why concealed? Is it tactical, functional, or because you don't want to deal with all of the laughing and people calling you a dumbshit because you are wearing a gun in a tac holster ready for combat on a flyfishing river in Washington state. You will never get to the concealed weapon especially if it is in your waders if you are actually stalked and attacked so why wear it around? Now a cross draw Tac Holster makes a small bit of sense and you can change the tension holding the gun in so it can be secure as you rock hop or wade a little deeper here or there or when you are getting ready to "pop a cap in the ass":rolleyes: of that next asshole you low holes you:D you are ready for battle. But since a shitty unathletic man can cover 21 feet in less than a second in a half, it's going to be tough to pull that baby out with a cross draw aint it Cowboys. But from a tactical and common sense standpoint, since all of you hike so far into meth lab, moonshine, weed plant and man eating bear country, (have seen one long abandoned still, some maybe shitty old meth labs, and a half dozen black bear flyfishing and elk hunting all over the state deep into the woods) wearing a tack holster on the leg makes the most sense. Get rid of the 9MM, get into the 230 grain 850 feet per second world and learn a whole bunch about weapons retention tecniques Rambos.
    Okay, back to the holster question? Why concealed?


    PS And there are weapons today you could wade wet all day submerged, and it would function perfectly when drawn. Us Force Recon Marines and SEALs know this full on. So wet wading is not a solid answer. Gentlemen you are claiming that this holster selection is a life support system based decision.........

    Why concealed?

    Oh and since we are preparing for flyfishing and firefights, the next issue is those damn heavy cumbersome magazines full of ammo, which all of us gun slingers know we are going to need at least 3 of if we really think there is a threat where we are flyfishing. And where do we carry those?
     
  20. steelydan

    steelydan Newb seeking wisdom

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    I am not going to insult your intelligence with a play by play of my post....
    The only reason for concealed on the river or in the woods is to head off any 'Coach Duff' sticking-my-nose-where-it-doesn't-belong expert commentary.
    I have been shooting handguns since 1970.
    Bullseye indoor competition since 1977.
    IPSC and IDPA since 2001.
    First SteelyDan album purchased...AJA in 1978.
    I'm really tired of seeing these gun posts deteriorate into self-indulgent rants.
    I'm done on this thread.
    BTW, Newb to flyfishing....not firearms.
     

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