NFR: How do you pack your firearm when fishing?

Discussion in 'Fly Fishing Forum' started by Peter Pancho, Mar 12, 2009.

  1. Denny

    Denny Active Member

    Word, Coach. My dad put food on the table from income gained from his gun shop, and he was a deputy sheriff, certified armorer, NRA certified instructor, etc. In fact, he conducts firearms and defense classes now in his retired time. We had plenty of family friends that were law enforcement folks and/or had substantial military training.

    I have my share of firearms, and would hope that I would be able to use them effetively if the unfortunate situation ever occurred where they were needed. Coach echoes everything I've heard from our law enforcement friends and my dad. There are only 2 losers in an altercation involving a deadly weapon. However, with that said, I'd rather be the person behind the firearm and not being shot.

    What's that old saying "Better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it". I haven't (yet) run in to a circumstance where a firearm or other weapon was needed or its need imminent; however, it only takes once.

    The inconvenience of packing and the procrastination of finding that easily packable firearm keeps me from toting one around. However, it's likely going to happen.

    Right now, it's pepper spray. :) So, don't be low-holing me!:thumb:
     
  2. Be Jofus G

    Be Jofus G Banned or Parked

    No way man, 50 cal desert eagle. It'll drop a brown bear no problem. It's no 12 ga jacketed sabot pumper but it will drop one. a 44 mag in the hands of the right person will as well, but that ain't me.
     
  3. Bullwhacker

    Bullwhacker Member

    Maybe we can have the second amendment revised to read the following:

    A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people approved by the Duffer to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed. :rolleyes:
     
  4. Mike T

    Mike T Active Member

    The question asked by Peter Poncho was "how to carry" that's the question I've been focusing on. But I'll play your game for a moment. I would only present a gun, or other weapon, as a last resort to defend myself or family member from a life altering or threatening injury at the hands of an assailant or predator. I firmly believe the first step to effective self defense is awareness of your surroundings and avoidance of real threats. The final step, when all else has failed, is the presentation and potential use of a weapon. I've gone through training and this is the main point that consistently comes through. I fully realize that once the weapon is drawn and used there are no winners only survivors.

    Re. Galco holsters. I stand by what I said, I've seen them after thousands of presentations from shooters and they do lose some of their ability to retain a weapon. Military procurement many times means buying from the lowest bidder. I'm sure that Sparks or the other holster makers I named could not have competed for, or filled a contact as they are all small operations.

    Re my knowing what Damneck or Bragg are, I know Bragg is an Army base and home of Rangers and Special Forces. I have no idea what or where Damneck is. I've not made any claims to be in or retired from the military so I don't know where you're going with this. The Rangers and Spec Forces guys who've shot in matches I've run have almost always used their drop leg Safariland kydex holsters. I've handles some Vietnam era and earlier holsters for 1911's and found them to be sub-par in terms of weapon retention and ease of draw.

    Re my fighting background checks. Nope not me. The law in WA is well settled re the state's right to require that.

    I shoot for fun and to learn more about my abilities, I don't delude myself by thinking IDPA & IPSC are training, they're games. For some time I shot about 1,500 rounds of 45acp & 300 to 500 rounds of .223 a month. I train outside of that as I recognize the seriousness & difficulty of effectively handling firearms.

    You don't know me and I don't appreciate your making assumptions as to my character or motivations here. I haven't done that to you. As far as I'm concerned when I've disagreed with you I've done so plainly, but courteously. You obviously have experience that far exceeds others here when it comes to the use of arms. Your penchant for personal attacks diminishes the benefit that knowledge could have for those who will carry whether you approve of it or not.
     
  5. Gatorator

    Gatorator Member


    Sorry but there is not a pistol made that will stop a charging Brownie or Grizzly with no problem. The trouble with Bears, as I see it, is that most people will not wait long enough. With a pistol or a shotty you have to wait until they are inside 10 feet to have your best chance. I said chance, nothing is certain. By cutting loose at 25 feet you had better be damned good. Most people shoot for centre of mass, as in a person, but that is absolutely NOT the way to try and turn a charging animal.

    With a shotty you can go for a shoulder, depending on what type of projectile you are using, and depending on the angle. Bears do not stand straight up like on Gentle Ben but charge on all fours and run over the object. They do not try and bite you until you are knocked over and on the ground. With a pistol your only hope is a CNS shot to the Brain or to the back. You can shoot one in the Heart but you will be Dead before the Bear and that is not the object. Unless you believe in Pyrrhic victories. You need to understand anatomy and you need to be close.

    Me, I would try to put it right on the nose and hope I hit the Brain or, if missed, the backbone in the neck.

    A .44 is marginal in this instance. A Desert Eagle too heavy and awkward and too many things can go wrong with them. If you must use a pistol a .500S&W is your best bet with hard cast bullets.

    All this is of course IMHO and submitted as such. :D

    PS I still don't understand what is wrong with your Girl Friend or Wife nick naming you Steely Dan? :rofl:

     
  6. gearhead

    gearhead Active Member

    You guys do realize, a large percentage of the people claiming self defence in a shoot, go to jail. just pointing a gun may be determined to be aggravated assault. it all depends on the prosecutor and his or her value system, they determine if you are going to be prosecuted or not, not the officer on the scene, last i checked prosecutorial administrators are elected officials, so if you pull it, you better be right, or jail is where you will sit. you better be able to demonstrate and articulate your life or the life of another, was at risk.
     
  7. Ethan G.

    Ethan G. I do science.. on fish..

    I don't know about you guys, but this is what I'm packing when I go fishing.:D That'll stop a bear.

    <object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/XZL797pOAZ0&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/XZL797pOAZ0&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

    Just had to add some comic relief.:rofl:
    -Ethan
     
  8. Gatorator

    Gatorator Member

    Especially if you turn your back on the Bear and let the pistol hit him in the head.
     
  9. Flyborg

    Flyborg Active Member

    You know, there was a time in my life when I tried hard to substantiate that claim, but so far it's just panned out to be empty rhetoric. I'd be open to anyone willing to share numbers and data with sources (preferably non-gun/anti lobby sources). Until then, well you know what they say about opinions...
     
  10. Trent

    Trent Ugly member

    :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl: that was good:rofl::rofl:
     
  11. Roper

    Roper Idiot Savant

    OMFG! This has gotten so out of hand.

    Ropers reality check:

    How many of you have had a life threatening experience (other than drowning) while fishing?
    You know, grizzly, tweaker, armed robber, suicide bomber...

    Have you ever fished an area know for any of the above?

    How many have drawn down on one of the above?

    If a building was on fire, would you run inside...?

    Anybody gettin' my drift yet...?
     
  12. Coach Duff

    Coach Duff Banned or Parked


    What? It's not black and white? You mean if AS I AM tells the prosecutor that he was in the right, and kills someone who attacked him while he was flyfishing:D:D:D:D (I know, the whole concept is funny boys) he doesn't just walk if he felt the law he had interpreted was right on his actions? Say it aint so.........

    And why the sweating and personal take on this? Nobody including me has questioned anybodies right to bear arms, to carry a concealed weapon or to defend yourself. All I've questioned is some of your competence, your understanding of the use of deadly force and your preplanned ROEs. Oh, that's right those are areas we are lacking a bit............ :rolleyes:

    Lastly you freedom fighters say "its none of our business" if you concealed carry or not while out FLYFISHING. Let's say just for shits and grin you are an idiot who has no training and then you have a ND on the river and one of us or our children is hit by a stray round while out flyfishing. Crazier things do and have happened. Then it becomes our business real fast. So you are out wading, rock hopping, hiking and climbing around me and my friends and family in a river with a loaded gun in your waders and I am the motherfucker for questioning and asking about your intententions, your training and your abilities? Getting pissed and flying off the handle when someone does question those things just shows your ass and how incompetent you really are. You are the folks that should have the CCP taken away.
     
  13. Gatorator

    Gatorator Member

    Well one time my Cousin told our wives we would be back at camp before dark so not to worry. We forgot and didn't leave the river until dark. :hmmm:

    About as close to Death as anyone would want to come.
     
  14. Mark Moore

    Mark Moore Just a Member

    Every weekend from Jan.1st until sometime mid April when I mention to my wife that the Steelhead fishing should be gettin' pretty good....:D
     
  15. Be Jofus G

    Be Jofus G Banned or Parked

    BS. :rofl: If you can't hit a bear charging at full speed with a pistol, you're probably not going to hit it with a shotgun either. That's why I always lay down a perimeter of m-18s between my truck and the river. You can never be to carefull. :beer2:
     
  16. Roper

    Roper Idiot Savant

    There you have it, the one time you shoulda been packin'...:rofl:
     
  17. Salmo_g

    Salmo_g Active Member

    At least this thread is as entertaining as it is informational. I'm just pissed that I can't "legally" pop the perp that's broken into my storage shed and house under construction three times in the last four weeks. Even if I catch the dirt bag in the act, the Co. deputy says I can't even whack him with a club, let alone shoot the bastard dead. I thought what about connecting a live wire to the metal siding on the storage shed? No dice says the deputy. It'll just get me in a ton of trouble, even if the perp doesn't get hurt or killed from it. There is no justice I tell ya'.

    My take on the packing and holster situation is that this country really began going down hill when we stopped hanging horse thieves. That was a bad move. Up until then, theft could be a capital crime. And as any cop will say, most of the crimes are committed by repeat offenders. Whack 'em and stack 'em I say; cuts way down on recidivism, not to mention the huge reduction in the crime rate. Not that I'm a cold-hearted kinda' guy or anything. But I'm short one Yamaha long shaft 4 stroke 4 hp kicker, a Stihl 031-AV chainsaw, a Porter Cable air compressor, and a spool of 12/2 wire.

    Sg
     
  18. Coach Duff

    Coach Duff Banned or Parked

    Roper that's all I'm trying to say. Why in the hell do you feel the need to go flyfishing armed? But on a side note and very interesting is this article:

    New Study Says Bear Spray Outperforms Guns
    by Tom Chandler on March 29, 2008

    From the formerly bikini-fishing-chick posting deviants at the Getoutdoors Blog (GoBlog) comes a Salt Lake Tribune story that suggests leaving the big, heavy firearm at home might be your best bet when it comes to bear protection:

    If you’re roaming bear country, your best protection against an unpleasant encounter is a can of bear spray, not a gun, according to Brigham Young University wildlife biologist Tom Smith.

    Smith’s team, which included Stephen Herrero, a world authority on bear attacks, has studied 600 bear encounters in Alaska over two decades. In 72 incidents in which bear spray was used properly, the bear stopped charging more than 90 percent of the time, according to a study Smith published in the April edition of the Journal of Wildlife Management. People using guns, by contrast, stood a one-in-three chance of failing to deter the bear, according to an earlier study.

    Bear attacks aren’t exactly a problem in the Mt Shasta area, and while I’ve seen bears a half-dozen times up here, they’ve always been headed in the opposite direction. And frankly, I’d hope the smell of human waste drives bears away, because I’d likely soil myself if a bear ever did charge.

    Still, it’s food for thought for the upcoming Montana road trip, though it’s possible that just being fast enough to outrun your fishing buddy is defense enough.

    See you in the pepper aisle, Tom Chandler.

    Sorry, I forgot about this article I read a while back. I waited to add it here at the end. Thought I'd throw it in as some final food for thought.:beer1: Coach
     
  19. David Loy

    David Loy Senior Moment

    I have two teenage daughters who, while usually are wonderful kids, sometimes are at each others throats. You know how women can keep going at each other in a circular kind of way, not giving an inch? They learn that early and practice often. Well, tonight was one of those "sometimes" and I just chuckled my way through the fight.
    Thankyou gentlemen.
     
  20. Coach Duff

    Coach Duff Banned or Parked

    You are very welcome David.;)