Discussion in 'Fly Fishing Forum' started by Go Fish, Dec 14, 2012.
BTW Roper I agree 110%
I would be happy to have this conversation with you via private message. There are numerous quotes that I can show you wherein Jefferson, Franklin, Madison, Washington, etc all expressed their disdain for Christianity and organized religion.
Now wait a cottin pickin minute here. I never said who you had to pray to. Or that you had to participate in prayer at all. If a moment of silence to pray, or not to pray, to whomever you chose is allowed in public schools, that's all I'm talking about. I was under the impression that even that was no longer allowed. Hey, you want to worship a comet, or not worship anything, I don't care. Just don't go trying to make laws telling the rest of us who, what, or where we can worship.
Now as to the so called "separation of church and state", there is nowhere in the Constitution that phrase in mentioned. What is mentioned in the first amendment is "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof" What part of that is beyond comprehension of anyone. So how can the Supreme Court tell us, that by any stretch of imagination, it is unconstitutional to post the ten commandments in a court room building while sitting in front of a display of the ten commandments? If that is not the height of hypocrisy, I don't know what is. Or that any religion is required by law to provide funding or services that are in conflict with it's teachings? If we are to accept any further amendments being a direct violation of the original first amendment, or any of the original Bill of rights for that matter, we may as well scrap the whole thing and become a dictatorship.
This thread's gone full retard.
You are absolutely correct. Remember the main reason the pilgrims fled Europe and settled here was to escape religious persecution. And that is why the first amendment explicitly states "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof"
What exactly is your definition of full retard? It's not going your way?
I find it amusing how many Second Amendment enthusiasts can't seem to accept the First Amendment (or at least the establishment clause). Doubly amusing that the same guys are scared witless about the government getting involved in regulation of firearms but perfectly at peace with the government being in the business of religion. Not to mention the notion that none of the bad stuff would happen in this country if'n we had just kept nativity scenes, Christmas carols and state-sponsored prayer in public schools. The percentage of Americans who identfy themselves as Christians is still very high - over 70%. Doesn't seem to have made much of a difference in preventing all the carnage in this country.
Before we go any further with this thread I'm hoping someone can post the "sporting arms clause", of the 2nd Amendment, you know that part that states it is specifically about hunting arms. I can't seem to locate it, it's referenced so often here and by folks like Gov Cuomo that I'm sure it's out there somewhere. Thanks in advance.
It must suck being thin skinned, always mad at someone else. One thing I've learned though, having that mindset won't make you any happier long term, and it certainly doesn't help anyone else.
We're all stuck on this planet until the day we die. There's a version of righteousness and religion to help those around us who can't help themselves. For me that doesn't involve guns. It's actions. If that's offensive to you, or to your god, I probably won't be high fivin' you in heaven.
Did you even think about the logistics of this before posting it? Did you really think kids were not allowed bow their heads, close their eyes, fold their hands, and pray in their head?
It went from a largely constructive thread on the consequences of a tragedy to non-constructive mudslinging.
Roper for pres. and Brother Mingo for vice pres. !!! Amen to that !!!!
OK. Some of you religious gun boys can go worship your "idol" now...:
"I'm gonna protect me and mine from the bad guys. It's my right!"
+1 on that
Moderators, I think it's time...the only thing this thread is missing is an exit strategy
The following, to the best of my recollection, is the context of the Second Amendment of the Constitution of the United States of America: "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." Written in 1780 plus or minus. Of course it is impossible to know exactly what our founding fathers meant by this compound sentence which contains three separate phrases. The interpretation therin lies to the reader, at first, then those who may be required to challenge, regulate and/or adjudicate any offenses of the same.
If you ask me, and no one really did, "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." can be broken down into two key concepts, in my humble opinon. First, it addresses the militia, which seems to have evolved to the national guard. This entity exists in each of the fifty states (I think) and is a professionally trained fighting force for national issues, although most know that the national guard have also been deployed with the armed forces to international issues as well. Second, and most clearly, we, the people, have the right to keep and bear arms and this right shall not be infringed [upon by the government...which is my belief as to who we are expected to keep and bear arms against, due to the whole tyranical reign concept that was the catalyst to our declaration of independence a few years before this amendment was written]
WTF do I know though. I'm a dumb monkey. I do have a pocket constitution, that I refer to often, and carry quite a bit, in part because what I do day to day has to balance many things, including rights of the people in my professional community. Now I'm talking about work, and I'm off work...knock it off.
So, that means that we need AR-15's and AK-47's to defend ourselves from our government?!
OH........................h. Now I understand, stupid me.
The only thing I need a gun for is hunting, except I don't hunt anymore. If I did, I think I would be perfectly happy with a 30-06 for deer or elk, and a shotgun or two for some birds. Oh, I can kill in less than 3 shots, so keep the damn clips larger than that. (Oh whoops, I forgot about fighting the government.) Anyway, if you can't kill a deer or elk with one shot or some birds with 3, you shouldn't own a gun anyway. BTW, how many of you get your "rocks off" by firing your AR-15 anyway? If you do, have you every thought of joining the military? It might be just right up your alley!
You mean like running your own business or being catholic?You certainly can't tell someone not to use BC,but you should not be compelled to provide it against your religious beliefs.
Larry, I did not say or type anything like what you seem to indicate I led you to believe, and quote. If you are going to quote me, make it relevant. I'm not defending AR-15's and AK-47's. I have seen first hand what they can do. I have neither, nor a need for them. I did join the military, back in 1986, and after 20 years and 9 days I retired on September 11th, 2006. I chose that date on purpose. The significance still remains. If I choose to have weapons to defend myself from the assaults from others, or a tyranical government (our or another that chooses to think they can overthrow ours) that is my business and my right to do so as provided by the 2nd amendment of the constitution. The composition of guns owned may have room for regulation. I belive that guns are tools and those tools should fit the proper or needed use. I don't disagree with your take on hunting or the proficiency needed.
If the government sent armed guards to your house and told you to toss your guns in the back of thier dump truck, would you?
What? No way. This thread has gone full epic is what you mean. We've gone from sorrow over the tragic death of children to talking about pharmacists, birth control pills, "holiday" vs. "christmas" and mocking those who can't kill things efficiently enough. Solid gold 100% not a time waste at all.
But hey, maybe this will help?
You can pry my gun argument thread from my cold dead LCD.