On religion and such

Discussion in 'Fly Fishing Forum' started by BOBLAWLESS, Feb 26, 2005.

  1. Wow quite a thread. . . I say my peace and be gone. . . I am very strong in my faith; right now I have been fasting for 21 days from sun up to sun down I have three days left. I say my prayers every morning and night. I read my holy text and try to make meanings from the poems and riddles that are in it. I freely wear my pendent around my neck making sure everyone knows my faith. The only difference is that I am an Asatru, a heathen. I have been treated fairly by everyone I have spoke to and never fear alienation for my faith, because I know it's my faith and that is all that counts. I have studied many cultures and faiths; I was raised as a Bahai to become a Leviathan Satanist through my teens, was a member of Church of discord and studied the Quabalah, went through the Buddhist stage also. I called my self enclitic for many years until I found my Gods; Odin, Frigg, Thor, Sif, Frey and Freyja.

    I have taken an oath to my gods and will keep it until I die, never bending only learning more and strengthening my convictions. I hear so much from my peers and those around me, I take no offense to any comments because I can see where others are coming from. To defend ones faith, even if none at all, is instinct and to each their own, and that is how I believe, if you want to know your God as any name then so be it. To some the pagan beliefs might sound silly, but your faith might sound silly to us pagans.

    I do not believe that our nation is become more secular but becoming more aware of those who walk amongst us. It is sad that some want to convert and judge others which they know nothing about, but that is what our race has always done. To take some one heritage is only destructive and wrong; who would try to create a Norse out of some one from Japan, it’s absurd, I don’t want to be any other then what flow in my blood. I am Norwegian and more I dig into my roots the more I find how much my heritage was trample on because of conflicting religions, I ask why would someone destroy a culture only in difference of beliefs. Why would I want to believe in any other way but before Christianity converted my people, I could be the last to tell the tale and the stories of how we once lived. There are great lessons in the bible but the God is not for all of us.

    But I smile every time I hear the week days, and I smile when I think of the traditions that still are done everyday without people knowing that they are the heathen traditions. I smile at all the things that are imbedded into our everyday life that stemmed from my way of life. It is in those I see my faith and my ancestors and my faith in the Gods grows . . . Hail Odin, Blessed be to all on this board, and with blithe eyes may the Gods look upon you all. . . .
  2. Jeremy,

  3. I am reminded of my old childhood friend Tony, who was an elderly former prizefighter and immigrant Italian who became an American citizen in the late 1920's, was a gang-plank Steveadore in Brooklyn and later fought for our great country in World War 2. Tony was also a bartender and bouncer for Harry M. Stevens bar at Yonkers Raceway at night. By day he tended the tomato plants in his tiny backyard garden. He made red wine in an old tin tub in the basement, and he baked his own bread two days a week. Tony was a very wise and tough old man. He had hands like huge hammers. His nose was all twisted and smashed to one side. He had a gristled looking, "cauliflower ear".

    One autumn sunday afternoon I was helping him pull the old vines up from the garden beds, so we could burn them in a big barrel. It was hard work. I dont know why, perhaps just adolescent curiosity, but I suddently, out-of- the-blue so to speak, asked Tony if he believed in "God and the Chuch and all that religion stuff".

    Tony got a thoughtful look on his face. He paused from the sweaty dirtywork and wiped his brow with his big red kercheif. He stared down at the tomato vines and dirt, and he flatly stated: "Dont beat your horse".

    It has been my gospel ever since.
  4. More Secular?????????????????? You need to watch something other than FOX news

    No other industrialized nation on earth has a government that emotes christianity like the United States...Most of out alies, even though the population may be devout Bhuddist, Taoist, Deist, and even Christian have almost completetly eliminated religious references from the goverment. Are we more enlightened than everyone else or less enlightened?
  5. A little history is a dnagerous thing bebop. The story of Isis was predated by another group. I will let you guess which one.
  6. Hint: They spent some quality time with the egyptians around 1720.
  7. "No other industrialized nation on earth has a government that emotes christianity like the United States...Most of out alies, even though the population may be devout Bhuddist, Taoist, Deist, and even Christian have almost completetly eliminated religious references from the goverment. Are we more enlightened than everyone else or less enlightened?"

    What does enlightend mean? Probably depends on your persepective...

    So are you saying we as a nation are growing more Christian every year? I think you are the one living in a bubble if you think that...
    I'm saying we are growing more secular every year. Our history clearly backs that up. And I don't think it is necessarily a bad thing. Like it was said by Jeremy, we are a very diverse nation and getting more so every year.

    I am all for seperation of church and state. But I don't think we need to go out of our way to eliminate historical references or alienate ourselves from our past religious influences. As long as the govt is not forcing the people (directly or indirectly) to recognize an 'official religion', I don't see any harm.

    Currently we have a (supposed - I'm not the one who decides these things) Christian President. That bothers, scares, and offends some people. Next time we could easily have an atheist, agnostic, etc. That will surely bother and offend some other people. But as long as they don't try to tell me I can't practice the religion of my choice, I dont' have any problem with who is in charge (aside from other policies\agendas I may or may not agree with...).
  8. Thing is, that the right has historically thought we were trending towards the amoral void that leads to the end of humanity, while the left feels that we are heading towards a utopian society. Truth of the matter is that genocide continues just as it has since we have been on this earth. On the flip side, we have also abolished slavery and have witnessed the civil rights movement. When asked if we are progressing or regressing, my usual answer is this:

    We are merely trading lynch mobs for media mobs; Murderous tyrants for big business oligarchy and one religious persecution for another.

    Humans are humans. As much as we would like to say that we are changing for better or for worse, it simply isn't suported by the facts.

    I know you are going to ask for links, so do yourself a favor and look up congo genocide; sudan genocide ect. Look at the way the media can convict an innocent man or free a guilty one.

    Human greed and good is here to stay. The only difference will be how these features manifest themselves in any given culture.
  9. "As much as we would like to say that we are changing for better or for worse, it simply isn't suported by the facts."

    Not sure if this was directed at me, but please not I never used the words 'better' or 'worse' to describe the direction I see us heading.

    And I agree with your post Monk. Human nature will be the same and power will always corupt....
  10. I've read this thread. Man, I have found I need to start reading this board daily. Was terrible trying to catch up on this thread.

    My views are this. If someone is living their life, are happy, and are not pushing their views on you, leave them alone. Do not judge, or worry about them not going to heaven. In all my years, I have met way to many people who have judged me because I am not going to church. Mostly because my parents were religious. I decided not to go that route once I turned 18. I love my wife, treat her with respect. Love and care for my kids. I feel I've lived a fulfilling life to date. I don't see it changing either. Will reading a book make my life complete? No, I've read the Bible more then most "religious" people have and find my life complete without it. I find inner faith, and lead my own life in the direction I feel. Plus, I rather spend my Sundays with my family enjoying the outdoors. Well, saturdays and sundays that is.

    I would like to add. I don't find anything wrong with religion. I just don't like others trying to push it on others. Especially when I dated a Mormon girl in high school. That was the worst few months of my life. Her family was always pushing "converting" on me. I didn't care for the religion I was in, let alone converting to another.
  11. For The Love Of Fly-fishermen Everywhere, Quit This Post Now! Enough! Go Back To Fishing Reports, I Need To See Some Info On Lenice.
  12. Welcome to the board, NW Flyfisher. You sound like a nice guy to fish with, someone who respects the opinions and views of others and has no hidden agenda, i.e. conversion, signing you up for something, etc.

    Hope you enjoy. Some guys are bit of a pain in the butt but most are excellent fishers as well as people. Forget the few--look at the many.

    Bob, the Notice my number of posts. You might say I am a bit talky. :rofl: and this post, which I authored, may be the all time longest post in number of replies and views. :cool:
  13. Word :thumb:

  14. NW Fly Guy, what you say is a good reminder to all of us, particularly those of us who consider ourselves "religious" and attend church on a weekly basis. As a Christian, I believe that heaven and hell do exist in an objective sense, therefore I must admit that I would like to see all people enjoy eternal salvation upon passing from this life. That being said, I also realize that true conversion is God's doing and not mine. I can only witness to others (using words only when necessary and ideally allowing the type of life I lead and who I am as a person to do the bulk of my witnessing) and be open to God working through me on ocassion to help someone in need. Likewise, I cannot judge anybody in terms of the state of their soul, as again, that is something I believe only God can judge. In fact, I do not believe any human person has the capacity to judge whether someone is in hell or not (only God can know for certain who is in hell at this moment). As such, it behooves us not to waste time judging as it typically serves only to further divide us and alienate "non-religious" people from those of us who proclaim to be religious.

    "Love thy neighbor as thyself". Good words to live by, regardless if you believe in God or not. Peace.
  15. Chad...this doesn't bother me...what bothers me is a christian administration... this country was founded on the idea of having a set of checks and balances...under Bush, that doesn't exist anymore, at least I don't see it....you could call this the "Stepford Cabinet".
  16. See: You really can beat a dead horse! :rofl:
  17. It's not that he is a Christian president or that his administration is Christian.
    It's the agenda that they seem to have that bothers me, particularly as it applies to the environment. Today's paper (www.seattletimes .com) had a front page article where Bush is trying to gut the Clean Air Act with some dumb proposals called the Clear Skies Act which would clear the skies by allowing the polluters, factories and power companies, etc. longer time to clean up their pollution. So there will be more acid rain which wipes out fishing in some lakes and rivers.

    I don't know how you could call his anti-environment programs as being Christian and thus is his administration really Christian? Don't think so. But then I'm not a Christian. But I can't believe that God wants the earth slowly destroyed...

    Bob, the If that is so then it sure is not much of belief system; certainly, one can't be proud of it. :confused:
  18. Bob - I can assure you Bush is not getting his environmental policies from his religious background... It is certainly not a 'Christian' thing. Since I'm not a card carrying repulican, I can say this without cringing too much - but I'm afraid it may be more of a Repulican thing... :(
  19. Bob:

    One more post and you'll have 20 in this thread! That will be record as well! Go for it!

    Seriously guys, don't you have better things to discuss.

    Fly Fishing? You know what this site is about.....

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