Sad post re Kaufmann Streamborn

Discussion in 'Fly Fishing Forum' started by Don Barton, Apr 20, 2011.

  1. gt

    gt Active Member

    the feds siezed the assests, no pay yur taxes is a bad thing, or so the very reliable source has shared with me this evening.
     
  2. Ed Call

    Ed Call Mumbling Moderator Staff Member

    GT the way you amuse yourself amazes me. Your enjoyment of rubbing salt in the wounds is amazing. I can't believe that you have not worked in something about gill netting in all this Kaufmann bashing. Can't you find a single good thought, memory or reason to be sad to see such a store go by the wayside?
     
  3. Bob Jones

    Bob Jones Still truckless now farther away

    I still have my 2008 copy which was the last one they mailed to me after years of trading in the Tigard store. I used to have the 12 years prior to this one but when we moved too many things had to go. I made notes in the borders and pages of things I wanted to try and things Randall or Randy and others told me at the store besides the notes of what I was needing for the various sellections. I never was able to make it to the seattle aarea stores after we move and usually ordred by mail from Tigard.
     
  4. gt

    gt Active Member

    hey mumbles you still have trouble reading and comprehending???? kaufmans was my home shop since shortly after they opened their doors on hwy 99w in tigard. having spent thousands of dollars with these folks i find their demise disturbing but not unpredictable. amusement is the furthest emotion i can think of having had good times and wonderful fishing adventures with several of the original staff. those of us who frequented the shop and have followed along over the course of the last 42 years have seen their business change over time could sense the end was around the corner. hope that makes some sense to you mumbles, but i won't hold my breath.
     
  5. Lugan

    Lugan Joe Streamer

    Kevin, if you ever need a ride to a fishing spot, let me know. You're good people.
     
  6. gt

    gt Active Member

    but some good news is another of the 'old guard' rises from the ashes: http://www.fishheadexpeditions.com/

    and to clarify to the nth degree for the posters here who don't comprehend too awful well, i have no business interest with jerry and no financial involvment with his new venture. he is a great guy, however, who will make it work for you, no doubt about that. all the best to jerry as he kicks off his business.
     
  7. Kent Lufkin

    Kent Lufkin Remember when you could remember everything?

    Good to hear from you Kevin and to know that you're moving on despite the obvious toll the past couple years has taken. Maybe you, Lugan and I could hit some local water if we ever manage to get nicer weather this year!

    K
     
  8. snarlac

    snarlac Member

    Apparently, it wasn't only taxes (below is thread on deposits for trips the shop collected and did not forward to travel agents, surety bond lapsing, action by the State, etc.); I have heard of this before - and the principals tend to make themselves very scarce thereafter:

    http://www.danblanton.com/viewmessage.php?id=154492
     
  9. alpinetrout

    alpinetrout Banned or Parked

  10. Kent Lufkin

    Kent Lufkin Remember when you could remember everything?

    That's an interesting read and sounds like an ugly situation that ended up costing some customer some serious money. Following one of the links in it led me to this thread:

    http://www.west-fly-fishing.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=651927&page=3

    Remember the earlier threads here on WFF speculating about Kman's Seattle store closing and how a manager named Jacob posted that they were just rumors and nothing could be further from the truth?

    Here's a post from the link above that hits it right on the head:

    "I STILL think we closed the first thread on Kauffman's too quick on a request from a store manager (sorry J!). Lesson learned that where there's smoke, there might be fire and the grapevine here might have saved someone some hard earned cash."​

    K
     
  11. facialplassurg

    facialplassurg New Member

    For those of you out there who lost money like I did, if interested we can file a class action suit collectively. Not that I'm lawyer happy, but it turns out they processed a deposit for a trip two days before filing for bankruptcy. That's just plain deceit and dishonesty, I don't care how loyal you might be to the store. They certainly had no morales in taking money knowing they would not deliver the product. If interested, respond to this reply at facialplassurg@aol.com.
     
  12. Kent Lufkin

    Kent Lufkin Remember when you could remember everything?

    I'm truly sorry to hear of your loss and hope there's some way that you can recover at least something. From personal experience though, using a lawyer will likely reduce what you are ultimately able to recover by half or more.

    K
     
  13. Be Jofus G

    Be Jofus G Banned or Parked

    Good luck collecting on that. :(


    Get used to it. Collect -> Spend -> Bankrupt is a pretty popular business model these days. Gotta love revenue based value.
     
  14. gt

    gt Active Member

    loss of the trip deposits is a tough one to stomach. i believe you will be classed as an unsecured debtor which places you at the very bottom of the food chain once the assests start going though the process of being sold off. unfortunately, it will be unlikely that you will collect anything at that point, but what the heck, give it a go.
     
  15. snarlac

    snarlac Member

    Well let's be clear here - it's criminal activity and crime victims we're talking about - not just civil liability; bankruptcy filing in such cases is just a smokescreen diversion - and won't provide them significant protection; my guess is the stolen assets (trip deposits) have been transferred/hidden, the people are gone and unlikely to be seen again in the State, and possibly the country. Mexico is my guess - too many crossovers for them to hide from gyped clients in Canada.

    And that (their absence) and the piece of mind that they won't ever be working again in the sportfishing biz, may be your only consolation.
     
  16. Lugan

    Lugan Joe Streamer

    My oh my, that Westfly thread is very interesting and worth reading end to end. If even half true, the Kaufmann legacy will be quite tainted. I hope it's not true...but it sure looks bad. It gives me vertigo.
     
  17. Kevin J. Burnham

    Kevin J. Burnham Active Member

    There was a time !!
     
  18. o mykiss

    o mykiss Active Member

    Kaufmann's has or soon will file for Chapter 7 bankruptcy protection. That means they will, under the supervision of a bankruptcy court, liquidate their assets and pay creditors (including people who paid for but didn't receive goods or services) with whatever proceeds they may receive from selling their assets. If Kaufmann's had a bank loan, it was probably a secured loan, so the bank gets paid in full before unsecured creditors (like those who paid for but didn't receive goods or services) see one thin dime. And employees get paid before unsecured creditors too. My guess is that if you're one of those people who paid for but didn't receive goods or services, you will be out of luck. I hope I'm wrong, but the odds of an unsecured creditor in a small retailer Chapter 7 proceeding receiving more than a few cents on the dollar are not great. All creditors (including customers who paid for but didn't receive goods or services) are supposed to be notified as part of the bankruptcy proceeding so they can submit their claims as part of the process. That is the only way you'll get anything back, unless you paid for it by credit card and can get your credit card company to unwind the transaction. Talk of class action lawsuits is pure folly. I mean, have fun litigating against a small company going through a Chapter 7 proceeding (not to mention finding a good lawyer willing to take on a class action lawsuit that's probably on its face worth less than 100k).
     
  19. gt

    gt Active Member

    i think it is important to remember that the folks moving in to sieze the kaufman assests were not about to broadcast their intentions a day, week or month in advance. the consumer was not aware and probably lance was also in the dark regarding the actions to be taken against his business. so while folks are out trip deposits, i think it a stretch to blame it all on lance as if he plotted to 'steal' your dollars by accepting deposits.

    i do agree the original discussion was shut down too quickly and perhaps the insight from many of you would have helped folks decide to wait and see before they wrote those checks. FYI, i know, personally, this has already started in november of last year but too many 'vocal' posters would have just tried to piss on my shoes had i posted what i already knew, such is life.
     
  20. Ed Call

    Ed Call Mumbling Moderator Staff Member

    GT, I think my reading comprehension is good enough. I know there are many that got soaked by Kaufmann's who kept taking money up to the bitter end. That is a horrible business tactic. I'm an ass for losing sight of that in my irritation to what you posted early. I hope that there is a way for those that got taken to get their money back.