Discussion in 'Fly Fishing Forum' started by Philster, Mar 31, 2011.
yeah, how in the hell do they not know. it both flies in the face of both brand's identity. Someone had to approve it, approve the purchase order ...so on and so forth
That is a great price. You sure the rods didn't come in a three pack...1497.00 for three?
"Honey, can you pick up a gallon of hummus, 300 AA batteries, and a case of Sages?"
I saw this display at the Silverdale Costco too.
Looked pretty sitting behind that museum display case. I, however, must've looked like a dork when I excitedly ran a couple laps around the nearest aisle looking for the rest of the gear...
Sorry, I don't get it. What is the big deal here? Folks buying online has led to the death of many tackle shops or EBay for that matter re second hand stuff rather than large outlets. Big nasty Cosco selling overpriced stuff in the first place at a 'discount'? It seems like snobbery that we flyguys like to say that we're not. I support 2 Seattle fly shops with most of my business, not huge by many standards but looking at my fly tying stuff the other day (my wife went mental and threatened to burn it if I didn't get most it out our living room and it got me thinking re it's worth as I filled 4 QFC bags and I have about the same again out the way), I dropped ~$600 bucks on that alone plus a further $400 on rods and lines in past 3-4 yrs. Don't mean to be incendiary but "so what?" really sticks in my mind.
I know that cosco sells refurbished items for kitchen aid and dyson. Maybe they cut a deal with sage and sims to sell their refurbs. You have to be in a heavy contract to get into that store so I do not by the "we had no clue" from sage.
Now I am taking a wild ass guess with this comment but figure a Z-Axis 590-4 runs about $350 - $400 wholesale. That still leaves about $100 to a $150 in gross profit with the $499 price shown. So the price isn’t a giveaway. They are making money.
However, that said, I don’t believe that either Sage or Simms would knowingly undercut their established retail base. I believe that they are firmly committed towards the shops and establishing a firm manufacturers set retail price. Anything else really is not in their interest. Several issues: The first being with Costco. They are in legal limbo for buying wholesale items overseas and selling them at below established retail prices here in the US. Omega watches has taken them to court on this matter. The outcome is undetermined. Second, if you take a look at all of the Sierra Trading Post ads that wind up in your spam. They were selling Sage rods at deep discount and that has ceased. Sage rods are now exempted as promotional items. There were some very nice prices on the discontinued VT 2 rods. For example a VT 2 8139 was running around $235 with discount and shipping. Somebody put a stop to the extra discounts. It must have been Sage and good to them for it. Finally, I believe that anybody selling Sage and Simms product a below the established manufacturers prices won’t be getting anymore product and that probably relates to the wholesale chain that provided them as well. I would suggest that if you want what is in stock at Costco, you need to buy it while it is there.
I would doubt Simms and Sage would sell directly to Costco. They probably sold to a middle man who in turn sold to Costco, thus caught them off guard. This happened to us many years ago when our product suddenly showed up in a Anchorage Costco.
Word around the campfire is pretty much the above quote.
Simms bought back every pair at costco's price. They didnt know about it, and were shocked. Not sure about sage. I assume the same for them.
I worked at a fly shop here in Spokane in 1991. At the time REI was starting to expand and wishing they could get Sage and Simms. Cabelas wanted them too. The rep said then that would never happen. Famous last words.
What I don't get , and never will, is how indignant the average angler gets over this.
If you really believe that this quantity of product was distributed without the knowledge of Simms and Sage then there is a level of naivete here that is unimaginable.
"Oh, you want to order 10,000 Z-Axis rods? Sounds cool, nah, I don't care where they're going..."
I saw that stuff today. 3/31/2011
My take on this is this:
The issue is not who sells the product, we are not going to control that. The issue is that authorized dealers are required by contract not to sell current merchandise below MSRP. Offers for free product if you buy at retail are still not alloowed as it is just another way of lowering the overall price of MSRP items.
As a fly shop we can compete with the big box stores and internet stores by offering expertise, service and knowledgeable staff if the prices are the same on the big ticket items. What will damage the fly shop's business is if there are lines of distribution that will allow the sale of product at less than MSRP. If Costco wants to sell at MSRP and agree to all of the terms that we as a Fly Shop agreed to so be it.
On the basis of service we will win that war.
You might want to look at this through the other end of the telescope - it's entirely likely that Simms and Sage changed their own rules and approached Costco about carrying their stuff on a trial basis. Since spending on recreational gear is in the shitter right now while Costco sales and shares are spiking, it's probable that Sage and Simms need Costco a LOT more than Costco needs them.
I can't belive that they would've changed their distribution rules for big-box stores - that would change their image and brand perception too much. They probably want to be seen as the type of brand you wouldn't find at Costco/Walmart/K Mart, but only at specialty fly shops. My guess is that they made a sale to someone slightly shady who turned around and sold everything to Costco.
While I don't own a <s>Kirkland</s> Sage rod, I would equate this with new Porshes being sold at the local Kia dealer. I don't think it's necessarily wrong but it devalues the brand. The ensuing, somewhat negative jibes from the Costco, Simms, and Sage relationship is probably not something that Simms and Sage welcome and probably not something that elevates their brand's reputation.
I wonder why Sage doesn't sell directly to Fly Shops and cut out the additional "middle" cost that is passed on to the customer.
We're talking flyrods here, not some sort of high performance supercomputer integrated into a total solution designed by Raytheon for the DoD.
I'm pretty sure fly shop owners are or can be pretty adept as to what and how to order merchandise directly from the manufacturer. In fact, I bet they (fly shop owners) would prefer to call manufacturer direct anyway....
As an aside, other 'small business' owners form or join purchasing co-ops to make their annual orders after attending CES or similar shows. They are competitive with larger stores and can pass savings onto their customers.