Sage and Simms at Costco?

Discussion in 'Fly Fishing Forum' started by Philster, Mar 31, 2011.

  1. Jerry Daschofsky Moderator

    Posts: 7,563
    Graham, WA, USA.
    Ratings: +563 / 5
    I won't speak for Marty (though I do know of him and deliver to him) but I know a few dozen companies who do manufacturing in China thanks to my job with UPS. Can honestly say you must deal with a lot of "knock off" companies. Those that don't hold the patents but skirt them by going to China and having lower grade crap made and selling below patent holders prices (though their product made at same factory is produced at a higher quality.

    So not saying you have no insight Kim. Just I have a MUCH wider view from numerous industries and see the different qualities of same product made differently depending on who was ordering (and I mean numerous, everything from outdoor products to POS systems and everything inbetween). Personally watched one company in Gig Harbor start the folding chair market. Yet all the copies are made in same factory at much cheaper/crappier standards. Can say my original chairs from said company have well outlasted the knockoffs and I use one of their chairs DAILY as my lunchtime lounger.
  2. Ian Broadie Flyfishing is so "Metal"

    Posts: 670
    Kirkland, Washington
    Ratings: +57 / 0
    God Damn Mongorians... Tear down my shitty warr!!!
  3. flybill Purveyor of fine hackle, wine & cigars!

    Skip the YouTube junk and read the most informative post of this thread. Obviously Costco isn't the only retailer that does stuff like this (i.e. - "The Evil Empire" - rhymes with Ball-smart!)...

    Thank you for sharing!
  4. Cactus Dana Miller

    Posts: 667
    Tacoma, WA, USA.
    Ratings: +0 / 0
    Interesting article. Many small manufacturers like this can be hurt by sales to large stores like Costco and others. If Packasport were to sell to a volume retailer this would take sales away from their smaller dealers and eventually force them to stop selling the Packasport items; it makes no sense for them to carry an item that they sell only occasionally. Once Costco became the majority reseller of the Packasport product, they are in a position to demand a lower wholesale price or they will no longer carry the item. This can cause the small manufacturer to either go out of business, sell out to a larger corporation or start manufacturing overseas to cut costs.

    I was not aware of the predatory purchasing tactics of Costco and find it disappointing.
  5. Brady Burmeister Active Member

    Posts: 522
    OH
    Ratings: +114 / 0
    Ditto. I wonder if anyone has a compiled list of companies that Costco has done this to.
  6. Jerry Daschofsky Moderator

    Posts: 7,563
    Graham, WA, USA.
    Ratings: +563 / 5
    I can't say which companies did it, insider info on my part from companies I deliver to. But know a few companies (bigger retailers) that will sign a contract and buy from a smaller company. Once it figures out where they are getting the smaller companies products from, they then turn around, won't renew contract, and go directly to the source and have a similar but lesser quality item produced under thier flagship name. Very interesting how the circle works. And have watched companies that produce parts for a bigger company that have figured out same thing, then bought lesser quality parts and packaged product together under the banner "I've produced products for X company, so buy from me now at a lesser price". When they have no real world experience in the product, just know how to make a certain piece (though critical for the product) and assemble it. Not illegal, just funny to see. Then selling a lesser product at a lesser price but selling it "built in same factory as". Which, isn't a lie, just isn't the total truth. I've seen some systems get returned to the manufacturers for repairs (a couple companies would do repair on other brands systems, since they actually designed them and can rework them and still make money off non warranty repairs), and saw how cheaply made the system was inside compared the "original". It doesn't always hold true. I do know some companies who've made a crappy product, and someone else heads overseas and has a similar crappy product produced. So it happens where you get the same product coming from any company. But know some personally that the original is EXTREMELY well built, where the knock off is pure crap.
  7. Brady Burmeister Active Member

    Posts: 522
    OH
    Ratings: +114 / 0
    So sad. Capitalism is such a great system when carried out with integrity, passion, and respect. I suppose any system backfires when insatiable greed becomes the primary factor.
  8. John Hicks Owner and operator of Sea Run Pursuits

    Posts: 2,096
    Olympia
    Ratings: +149 / 1
    Here is my two cents. I buy my fly fishing gear from local shops. I like supporting local businesses. I will not however berate Cosco for selling sage or simms. WTF.. I really doubt that there are a single one of us that does not shop at Walmart, Costco, McDonalds etc etc. All these companies go to a manufacturer and pretty much dictate what they are going to buy a product for. This reduction in price that they buy from the manufacturer gets handed on to the consumer. I don't agree with it but it is what it is. The bottom line is, we are all guilty of wanting a quality product for less than what it is possible to get it at our locally owned store.
  9. Kaiserman content

    Posts: 2,514
    Ratings: +365 / 0
    Sad but true. Well put John. :thumb:

    Most "skate" around the topic, but that is what happens when capitalism goes wrong (as someone has already stated). However, I will continue to buy only from local shops regardless of the price.
  10. gearhead Active Member

    Posts: 661
    Renton, wa
    Ratings: +45 / 0
    does this mean the value of my waders and rod will go down, am i in a lesser class now.
  11. Mike T Active Member

    Posts: 849
    Gig Harbor, WA
    Ratings: +54 / 1
    Next they'll blame Somoli pirates.
  12. Kaiserman content

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    How does a shipment go "missing"? "Hey Bob, did you deliver that shipment of Rods to Terry's Fly Shop?" "Yeah, but I got lost and it was getting late, so I just dropped it off at Costco."
  13. Jerry Daschofsky Moderator

    Posts: 7,563
    Graham, WA, USA.
    Ratings: +563 / 5
    Very easy. For bulk shipments they sometimes use a fvreight forwarder. A palletized load has been known to be put in the wrong trailer and isn't discovered until its unloaded at wrond destination (or until product that's mismarked is picked up and found to be wrong product).

    In this scenerio the company acting as middlemen to get Costco the product may claim non redceipt to keep their buying status with Simms and Sage. In todays world its easier to bust them but there is always someone who thinks they can get away with murder.
  14. Kaiserman content

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    So Jerry, it didn't get lost..."Bob" just delivered it via "under the table".
  15. Lugan Joe Streamer

    Posts: 2,332
    Beautiful View, WA
    Ratings: +677 / 2
    Either Simms/Sage are lying, or Simms/Sage need to cease doing business with the distributor in question. In either case, Costco smells fishy to me. My opinion of them has dropped a few notches after reading this thread.
  16. Kaiserman content

    Posts: 2,514
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    How could it not? This just in: Wal-mart buys out Costco. The new store is called, "Wastco".
  17. Dan Nelson Hiker, Fisher, Writer, Bum

    Posts: 753
    Puyallup, WA
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  18. Caveman Member

    Posts: 701
    N/A
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    Just picked up a Z-axis at Costco. Only 10 left........
  19. Steve Call Active Member

    Posts: 1,517
    Wetside, WA
    Ratings: +165 / 0
    A comment on the AnglingTrade article was that Simms and Sage should refuse to honor the warranties on purchases from other than authorized dealers. Let the buyers take their leaking waders or broken rods back to Costco and let Costco explain.
  20. Mike T Active Member

    Posts: 849
    Gig Harbor, WA
    Ratings: +54 / 1
    If I could get a hot dog and coke at my local fly shop I wouldn't have to go to Costco.