Scuds

Discussion in 'Fly Fishing Forum' started by Olive bugger, Jan 16, 2014.

  1. It's a funny way to tie Raymond's shrimp. The feather is on the fly's belly and the floss is wound thru it. I never tried it as (back then) I didn't want to find out I needed a third hand.

    There's so many scud patterns now that it's not funny. There's also an oil filled tube body wrapped scud.

    Back in 1977 when patterns were simple, tying abilities kinda lame and less material available I had a scud pattern that I fished at Chopaka one trip that was just angora goat dubbed on the tying thread. It wasn't neat either.
     
  2. Those look good, Richard.
     
  3. GOLDEN SHRIMP (per Steve Raymond’s book “Blue Upright”)

    Hook: No. 10-12
    Thread: Olive or Tan Monocord
    Body: Golden olive rayon floss
    Tail, legs, and antennae: Ginger saddle hackle (all on feather)
    Rib: Fine gold wire or tinsel

    THE LIST OF MATERIALS NEEDED TO TIE THE GOLDEN SHRIMP is only half the story; the rest is in how those materials are applied. Here, briefly, is the sequence:

    Choose a ginger saddle hackle feather with center fibers about three-eighths of an inch long on each side of the quill. Strip the fibers from the midsection of the feather on one side, leaving them intact on the other. The butt of the hackle and about half an inch of the hackle tip also should be left intact (not trimmed on either side); some of the butt fibers will serve as antennae and the hackle tip will serve as the tail of the fly. Thus, only the middle portion of the quill should be stripped, and only one side of that.

    After stripping, secure the hackle feather to the bend of the hook so the tip extends backward and down to form the tail. The feather should be tied to the hook just at the point where the trimmed section begins; take care not to bind the fibers of the untrimmed portion under the tying thread.

    After securing the feather, push it out of the way temporarily to make room for the ribbing and body materials. Tie in a length of fine gold tinsel or wire for the ribbing and four strands of golden olive rayon floss for the body. These should be secured just forward of the spot where the feather was bound to the hook.

    Wind the floss forward to a point just behind the eye of the hook and continue winding back and forth until you have built up a full, cigar-shaped body. Tie of the floss behind the eye of the hook and trim away any excess.

    Then take the hackle feather and place it along the belly of the fly stripped side up and tight against the body so the fibers on the unstrapped side are to hang down and serve as the flies legs. Using several turns of tying thread, secure the butt end of the hackle feather just behind the eye.

    Now comes the tough part: Begin winding the fine gold wire or tinsel over the body and the hackle, using a dubbing needle to separate individual hackle fibers to keep them from being bound under the wire. This requires a sharp eye and the ultimate in patience. Be sure to keep tension on the wire so it binds the hackle feather tightly to the body. When the fly is fully ribbed, tie off the wire just behind the eye and trim the excess.

    (loosely paraphrased…”two hackles for legs is a time consuming hassle and no more effective.”)

    The final step is to double over the butt section of the hackle feather so that some long fibers near the butt extend forward over the eye of the hook. Wrap the double-over feather with tying thread to keep these hackle fibers in place to serve as the antennae of the fly. Trim away excess hackle, finish the head, apply a liberal coat of lacquer and the fly is finished.

    (Steve mentions... "After a fair trial of the curved hooks, I went back to tying the Golden Shrimp on conventional hooks.")
     
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  4. Wasn't there a fly called the Jameson Shrimp? Used for fishing Jameson Lake? Can't remember what it looked like.
     
  5. Boy you shook the dust in my brain with that one, Keith,

    I believe you are correct, but can't recall what it was or looked like.
    Now I am going to check my sources from the 70 and 80's.

    Is Jamison still as popular as it was at one time?

    I did find a picture of Steve Raymond's Golden Shrimp in an old Inland Empire book that was published in 1981. It was tied on a 8 to 12 size sproat hook. Just a wrapped body with a gold wire wrap and ginger hackle tied below the hook shank, as legs.
     
  6. I've had luck with them on RF and Dry Falls and Lenore...not so much on Lenice, Nunally and others in that area. I always wade around in the shallows as I'm putting in (RF being the exception) and pay close attention to see if any of them show up attached to my waders or boots. If so, I'll definitely try them casting back to the shore line and retrieving back over the drop off. For me they never have been part of my "go to" list...could be I just fish them wrong.

    Last time I was at RF, DP gave me a couple of the one's from the "fly vending machine" in Ehprata and they went untouched for me... but swam right over to his and pounced on them. I think he's soaking his in Bud Light, but that's just my guess :D.
     
  7. Eating scuds makes trout grow very large... must be a lot of protein in the little suckers or something. For decades I was a consultant for Red Hills Lake in Oregon. Red Hills is a small, pay to fly fish lake in Oregon. It is owned by Larry Hays.

    At one time, Larry had an idea to "plant" scuds in the lake so the trout would grow fast and large. It was an unique idea but to my knowledge, there are no scuds living in the lakes of The Willamette Valley. I think they must require a habitat that doesn't exist on the rainy side of the state.

    His plan was to collect the mini-shrimp like critters from a fishery known to hold a large population of scuds, like the Crooked River, and transport them to his lake.

    Interesting plan.

    I can't say I've ever heard of anyone "planting" a lake with scuds before. Of course with the current problem of "invasive species" showing up where they're not supposed to be, it probably wouldn't have been a good idea. However, the ODF&W has no problem stocking invasive species of fish in rivers and lakes so maybe it wouldn't have mattered one way or the other. ...and it might have worked.

    However, if scuds could live in the lakes of The Willamette Valley, chances are, they'd already be here.
     
  8. That pretty well sums it up, Gene.
     
  9. Gene...what's the calcium content of the Willamette Valley lakes? I read where they need it to make their bodies... no calcium - no scuds.
     

  10. I believe it was a tan or light orange scud pattern. I'm going to surf and see if I can find it. I remember folks talking about it back in the 70's and 80's.
     
  11. Originated by Walt Ribble about 1947
    Jameson Lake Shrimp
    Hook: #10 – 6, 3xl
    Rib: Tying thread.
    Body: Medium Olive Chenille
    Palmer Hackle: Brown
    Shrimp Back: Deer Hair
    1. Tie in a 3” piece of Tying Thread at hook bend
    2. Tie in hackle tip at hook bend
    3. Tie in chenille at hook bend and wrap forward
    4. Wrap palmer hackle forward
    5. With ribbing latch down match stick size of deer hair at bend with hair tips for tail.
    6. Pull deer hair over top and rib down with ribbing.
    7. Tie off at head.
    8. Trim palmer hackle from top and side leaving legs under.
    This is and old tying style and the deer hair makes it a little less durable unless you coat it with flexament or super glue.



    Found this recipe for the Jameson Shrimp. Looks like Nyerges nymph with a deer or elk shell (back). I do believe this is way to tie the fly.


    The fly pic I found uses grizzly hackle and a plastic shell back. But it should be fairly close to
    the Jameson Shrimp.
     

    Attached Files:

    Mark Kraniger and FinLuver like this.
  12. Those look straight forward. I looked in my Roy Patrick book but I didn't find it. I really like the Nyergis Nymph pattern. Wonder if adding a shell back would affect it's effectiveness?
     
  13. Gene, I fished a lake east of Prineville years ago that had been planted with scuds. The guy that owned it said that he went to the Crooked River with a bucket and filled it with vegetation that he brought back and deposited in his lake. At the time it was a big bluegill fishery with I believe the state record bluegill being produced there. The scuds thrived and so did the bluegill, I caught some monsters. At the time it cost $50 a day to fish there and it was worth a 150 mile drive to catch such world class 'gills. By the following year he had planted trout in the lake and bumped the price up to $150 or so. I never went back, I can catch trout most everywhere but huge bluegills are a rarity here in the NW.

    Ive
     
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  14. I love to catch blue gills. Fiesty little devils.
     
    Keith Hixson likes this.
  15. "I love to catch blue gills. Fiesty little devils."

    Those fillets are really good eating. One of my favorite eating fish.
     
    Olive bugger likes this.
  16. I would imagine that's the deal. It is unlikely Larry's scud planting idea would have worked out.

    I can see where the scuds would thrive in a lake near Prineville. ... but in a Willamette Valley lake??... probably not.
     
    Taxon likes this.
  17. My version of the Jameson Shrimp. I used pheasant tail rather than deer or elk hair. Haven't figured out my new camera. But I followed the recipe, except for using pheasant tail.
    The fly looks a lot like the olive Rickard's nymph on page one of this thread.
    002.JPG
     

  18. I fished Dry Falls quite a bit back in the 80s and the Nyerges Nymph was quite productive. I suspect the fish took it for several different food items. Maybe I will tie a few in different colors and see if they work. Perhaps add a shell back and rib to a few just for jollies.

    Just thinking about this scud thing, a fellow could fill several fly boxes with patterns.
     

  19. I know I have probably six or seven different styles.
    Keith
     

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