SFR - Between a Rock and Hard Place

Discussion in 'Fly Fishing Forum' started by chief, Jun 6, 2013.

  1. chief Active Member

    Posts: 348
    Portland, OR
    Ratings: +123 / 1
    So I live in Oregon. I'm out Carp fishing in the Columbia Gorge last weekend on the Washington side, and we stop at a popular windsurfing beach to have a tailgate lunch. We are sitting there having lunch and a Washington State official stops his vehicle and asks to see my parking permit. We have not left the car, we are not planning on using the beach or the facilities, and there are no signs in the vicinity of where we are parked mentioning a permit is needed. I tell him all of this and he says we can purchase a day pass for $10 or use our Discover Pass (which we don't have either). The various annual passes that I already have in my glove box won't work. At this point I am already parked and feel obligated to buy the day pass or risk him escalating the conversation. But here is my bigger frustration, they have a self serve dispenser for the $10 day pass, but there is no way to buy a $30 annual Discover Pass that would cover my adventures for the remainder of the year. Now I'm out the $10 and will still need to invest the $30 for future trips. Kind of leaves a bad taste in my mouth....... It would be nice if you could buy one pass that covers the Forest Pass, the Discover pass, the Monument pass, the Fishing access pass, and whatever other passes they plan on dreaming up to tax us for using public land. Thanks for letting me vent.....
    Tony Abaloney likes this.
  2. triploidjunkie Active Member

    Posts: 2,313
    Grand Coulee, WA
    Ratings: +1,261 / 0
    Welcome to modern Washington. I don't believe in the pay to play mentality on public use lands, so I still hold out on buying any. So far it hasn't effected my fishing at all, except access to a couple carp flats. All that made me do was look around a little and find new, better flats.
  3. Dipnet aka Tim Hartman

    Posts: 889
    Silverdale, WA
    Ratings: +370 / 0
    I have my Discover Pass and actually even donated the $5 parks fee when I paid my vehicle tabs last week.

    Why?

    Because I appreciate and use our state parks and the Legislature has slashed their funding. ( Don't get me started on all the other useless stuff on which our state spends its money!) It's not the parks fault, the blame lies with our state government.

    I'm a firm believer that state governments should tighten their belts just as all the rest of us have done with our household budgets. Is that gonna happen???

    Duh.....

    Anyway, sorry chief, that you had a bad experience north of the border. Here's an article that explains a bit better: http://seattletimes.com/html/politics/2018828146_parks02m.html
  4. freestoneangler Not to be confused with Freestone

    Posts: 3,967
    Edgewood, WA
    Ratings: +706 / 1
    This horse has been beaten a few times since the DP introduction a few years ago, but it always makes me feel good to take a few more swings at WA's dumb ass policies -- so, I'm in. Not being able to buy the annual pass at the same self serve station does seem odd... but I'm certain there is a logical explanation that will trounce my just another well crafted way to make money conspiracy theory.
    Irafly likes this.
  5. Dipnet aka Tim Hartman

    Posts: 889
    Silverdale, WA
    Ratings: +370 / 0
    Too much logic.....:confused::mad::confused:
  6. freestoneangler Not to be confused with Freestone

    Posts: 3,967
    Edgewood, WA
    Ratings: +706 / 1
    Once they're drunk on the punch, have developed a serious case of OPM syndrome, and found a flock of sheeple's wanting to be herded, there is no turning back until the money and motivation that generates it runs out.

    Who is John Galt?
  7. Dipnet aka Tim Hartman

    Posts: 889
    Silverdale, WA
    Ratings: +370 / 0
    OPM?

    Sorry, that reference is lost on me.
  8. freestoneangler Not to be confused with Freestone

    Posts: 3,967
    Edgewood, WA
    Ratings: +706 / 1
    Other Peoples Money
  9. triploidjunkie Active Member

    Posts: 2,313
    Grand Coulee, WA
    Ratings: +1,261 / 0
    It wouldn't bother me so much if it went directly to what it was intended for(maintenance and upkeep of certain sites). But it gets dumped into a general fund, very little goes to the parks. The carp flats I need a discover pass for now aren't even slightly developed, except for a two rut track.
  10. Pat Lat Mad Flyentist

    Posts: 1,042
    Des Moines
    Ratings: +765 / 0
    ive seen a few, including the one at saltwater state park that have the option to buy an annual and no extra dealer fee either
    Gary Knowels likes this.
  11. Northern It's all good.

    Posts: 86
    Edmonds, WA
    Ratings: +18 / 0
    Triploid Junkie-
    Have you not bothered to check where the money goes, or do you just not believe the official statement? Just curious.

    Q. Which agencies receive the money from the Discover Pass fee?
    A. The revenue will be shared among the three agencies as follows:
    • 84 percent to State Parks
    • 8 percent Fish and Wildlife
    • 8 percent Department of Natural Resources
    Revenue from the Discover Pass is needed to make up the loss of general fund money that had historically been available for recreation on state lands. The state budget for the next two years (2011-2013 biennium) has almost no general fund dollars (tax revenue) for recreation on state lands. Revenues from the pass go to each agency in the proportion needed for general fund replacement.

    Q. Will all of the revenue from the Discover Pass be used for recreation on state lands?
    A. Yes. Revenue will be used for the purpose of operating and maintaining recreation lands and facilities. Legislation requires that all revenue received from the sales of the Discover Pass go directly into the Recreation Access Pass Account.
    Q. How can I be assured that the funds will be used to support recreation?
    A. The purpose of the legislation is to provide operating funds in place of the general fund tax dollars no longer available for recreation. The operating philosophy of the legislation is that it is fair to ask those who use state recreation lands to pay for them directly. All of the revenue from the Discover Pass goes toward providing recreation access on state recreation lands.
    Gary Knowels and Krusty like this.
  12. cabezon Sculpin Enterprises

    Posts: 1,713
    Olympia, WA
    Ratings: +237 / 0
    This is uninformed. The split from the Discovery Pass income is split between Parks, WDFW, and DNR (see http://www.discoverpass.wa.gov/faq/#revenue). NONE of it goes into the General Fund. Don't spout unless you know.
    Steve
    Krusty and Steve Vaughn like this.
  13. Jim Paget Member

    Posts: 96
    Ratings: +37 / 0
    My other vice is 4X4ing. We hear the same complaints on that side also (I sit on a DNR advisory group for Walker Valley). The ironic thing is that when the state was talking about cutting funding for recreational land use, the overwhelming sentiment at the public hearings which were held all over the state, was that we needed a funding source that was not dependent on the whims of the legislature. Now that we have one, no one likes having to pay directly for recreational use.
  14. Steve Vaughn Member

    Posts: 313
    Richland, WA
    Ratings: +40 / 0
    I love this debate after spending the first 55 years of my life in New York where everything is taxed. I've learned that "public" doesn't mean free, especially, if the public expects a certain quality in the resources. If people need to perform a service on something it shouldn't be an expectation for it be free. I believe that a large part of the economic problems in this country are the result of an expectation of something for nothing or close to nothing. We Americans make purchase decisions by price point in spite of carrying the banner of "Buy American" so crap is made overseas and sold at Wallyworld at a price the local Mom and Pop can't compete with. One should expect to pay for what they use or consume. I would prefer to pay a user fee than a State income tax (how NY pays for these things and a HUGE State government).
    Krusty likes this.
  15. Stonefish Triploid and Humpy Hater

    Posts: 3,862
    Pipers Creek
    Ratings: +1,262 / 1
    I hate fees as much as anyone, but will gladly buy a Discover Pass.
    I've lived here my whole life and really enjoy visiting our state parks and recreation areas.
    I won't let $30.00 per year stop me from going to places and doing the things I enjoy.
    Last year, I figure the pass cost me less then a $1 per visit. That is a good deal in my book, especially with the funds going towards the parks. Your mileage may vary.
    SF
  16. triploidjunkie Active Member

    Posts: 2,313
    Grand Coulee, WA
    Ratings: +1,261 / 0
    If there has been any improvements since these extra fees(yes extra) have come into play, I've yet to see it. Just the opposite from my perspective. I pay way too much in taxes as a small business owner, buy my Washington fishing license, which for me should include fishing Washington state land without an added fee to park on the same land. I might be misinformed, but I'm no suckerfish.
  17. cabezon Sculpin Enterprises

    Posts: 1,713
    Olympia, WA
    Ratings: +237 / 0
    A quick Civics lesson. While we may view it all as the "government". They (which really means us if you really think it through...) don't see it that way. They see it as city and county parks and land, state land (State Parks, WDFW access points, DNR land), and federal land (Park Service, Forest Service, BLM, etc.). Because they never went to kindergarten (they're governments, they can't go to school...), they never learned to share. But each has employees to pay, gas to buy. repairs to make, middle and upper managers to pay.... etc.

    It used to be that we paid a chunk of taxes into a general pool and government paid out money to do "good works" (your opinion may diverge... - beside the point). Specific taxes were unconnected to specific expenses. But, because tax revenues have not kept pace with the costs (or desire to spend. I'll let that one slide.), government has shifted to a more ala carte model for some functions. If you use it, you pay for it (or at least some of it. Take a look at how much of WDFW budget comes from the General Fund - little old ladies in Tacoma who never use WDFW or Microserfs who would freak out if they left their cubicles). If there is a constituency with the means to pay (after all, you can't get blood from a turnip) and if the service that the constituency desires is hard to argue as a CENTRAL function of government, costs have been shifted toward that constituency = user fees (look carefully at the details on your next plane ticket...).

    Therefore, you may be asked to pay at a city or county park (not common in Washington). To access many areas of state land, you need a Discovery Pass for State Park, DNR, or WDFW accesses or just your WDFW parking permit for WDFW access. If you are fishing or accessing fishing on Federal land or via Federal accesses (e.g., parking at Lmuma or Big Pines / The Slab (= BLM land) on the Yakima or Coldwater Lake in Mt. St. Helens National Monument (= Forest Service Land), you need one of several possible Federal passes, such as the America the Beautiful Annual Pass. I can't believe how many times I've seen fishers parking in the Coldwater Parking lot who think that the Fed will accept their WDFW parking permit - flunked civics.... In some rivers, like the Hoh or the Yak or even lakes, like Chopaka, you might need a state pass for one access and a federal pass for another access.

    Yes, each of them has a fee. Yes, it is a confusing list of acronyms, just like PMD, EHC, which we all managed to master.... Yes, it costs you money. Still, it is less that the cost of a round of golf for each.... And what would you rather do?

    Steve
  18. triploidjunkie Active Member

    Posts: 2,313
    Grand Coulee, WA
    Ratings: +1,261 / 0
    Shitballs!!! It sounds like it's the sport is turning into golf. Pretty soon I'll need a caddy to carry all my five weights.
  19. wlai Member

    Posts: 61
    Seattle, WA
    Ratings: +29 / 0
    Cabezon is right. Me personally, I hate this nickel and dime stuff, but hey people voted for all the Eyman initiatives trying to save a buck, so we get what most Washingtonians wanted, and Eyman gets a fat paycheck every time.
    Dan Nelson likes this.
  20. Alex MacDonald Dr. of Doomology

    Posts: 3,320
    Haus Alpenrosa, Lederhosenland
    Ratings: +879 / 0
    Move to CA and register your car there; then we'll see how much you don't like Timmy! There are plenty of "discovery" sites that will also take your WDFW access pass-the one that came with your fishing license. It'll say that on the bottom of the sign. Forest pass is superceded by the senior lifetime access pass you can get at places like Glacier Peak and forest "service" stations, for just $10, but you gotta be 62 or older. So there's some breaks out there, especially if you're older than dirt, like me!