Swivels for chironomid fishing?

Discussion in 'Stillwater' started by Kaiserman, Oct 21, 2013.

  1. Irafly

    Irafly Active Member

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    Jake, were you hanging the swivel in the exact same zone as the swivel? Trout will hit swivels and I simply don't want to take the chance that I'm missing zonal proximity due to swivel takes.
     
  2. shaker jake

    shaker jake New Member

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    Yes

    All three swivels were at 10'
     
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  3. Nick Clayton

    Nick Clayton Active Member

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    My tangles when fishing this way come from casting, and from landing fish. Neither of these problems are fixed by a swivel. I personally don't find myself tangled when the two flies are hanging in the water

     
  4. Nick Clayton

    Nick Clayton Active Member

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    The swivels were at 10', bur what depth were your chironomids being eaten? If the swivel is hanging 10' down, and your chironomids are being taken at 18', then it stands to reason that the fish aren't feeding at that deotch anyway.

    Or did you hang a swivel at the same deptch as your chironomids were being eaten and I just misread your post
     
  5. shaker jake

    shaker jake New Member

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    Chironomids were 2 feet below. Point is that swivels on this date did not attract fish during the time I fished. I am not saying fish don't ever strike at them.

    I find swivels handy and am not concerned whether fish occasionally strike at them. I've seen fish bite at my indicator too.
     
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  6. Nick Clayton

    Nick Clayton Active Member

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    Hey, if it works for ya then great. Personally I find it a waste of time, but to each their own!
     
  7. Jonnytutu

    Jonnytutu Member

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    As another poster mentioned up here in BC swivels are a pretty standard piece of equipment when fishing chironomids, especially at the deeper depths. It helps get you line down quickly and I also find it help to turn over the longer leaders when casting. Also makes for a nice change point between mono and flourocarbon if you are running a leader like that.

    Fin
     
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  8. Irafly

    Irafly Active Member

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    And as I have already mentioned, if you could use two flies with tungsten beads, like we can do here in Washington, then you wouldn't use the swivel.
     
  9. Nick Clayton

    Nick Clayton Active Member

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    I guess I have a hard time understanding how much quicker a single tungsten beaded fly is going to sink with a tiny little barrel swivel added somewhere in line.
     
  10. Peyton00

    Peyton00 Active Member

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    I will try and help you understand.

    take an 8ft pc of 4x line- toss it in the water.
    take a swivel of your choice and toss it in the water.
    watch them for 20 seconds.... actually watch the swivel for a couple seconds as it dissapears into the darkness and you can spend the next 18 looking at the line on the water.

    If you dont trust your knot tieing abilities, dont add the swivel. Keep your knots to a minimum and the stress down.

    I gear fish alot and the swivel is a blessing when fighting big fish as they twist and turn trying to rip a plug out of there mouths. The added swivel at the hook saves many fish from coming unbuttoned. The same goes for spinners and spoons.

    I can see the line twist issues, i can also see taking advantage of the weighted inline swivel that is out of the strike zones.
     
  11. Nick Clayton

    Nick Clayton Active Member

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    Wait, so you're trying to tell me that a metal swivel is going to sink faster than a chunk of mono? Well naturally.

    Now, perform the same experiment with a size 12 chironomid tied with a tungsten bead, or any other material probably for that matter. That's where I can't picture the swivel making a difference in the sink rate.


     
  12. pond monkey

    pond monkey Member

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    I like barrel swivels too for deep( 15-24 feet range).... not tiny though...I use #10 size, the bigger #7 are getting too heavy making casting more of a nuisace....they weigh about .2 of a gram about the same as a standard bead head chronnie.... so its like using two flies but its legal in BC.....plus they don't tangle in the landing net ever and they won't get hooked in an anchor line...
    I can't prove that fish never hit a swivel but even without a swivel bites can light anyway when fish are extra weary or just not being very aggressive...
     
  13. Jonnytutu

    Jonnytutu Member

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    Ira,

    you're right, two tungsten beads will sink much faster, if sink rate is the only component then a swivel is not needed. But personally, and maybe my casting needs some work, when flinging leaders around 20ft or more the swivel definitely helps my casting with the leader turning over more easily. Otherwise throwing a looong leader with a weight at the end generally ends up in the back of my head.....which sucks for me.

    Fin
     
  14. Irafly

    Irafly Active Member

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    The real great thing about those depths though is you don't need to cast far, unless you are really working your flies. That's where my switch rod comes in handy.
     
  15. Sinkline

    Sinkline Active Member

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    I always fish a swivel and 2-patterns. In fact, the size and weight of the swivel along with the size of the bobber are key to the system working as well as possible.

    The important factor about using a swivel is not how quickly the patterns and leader sink, but rather how taught the leader is held once sunk. You will detect more bites, and hook more fish if the leader is taught and there is literally zero memory/coiling between the bobber and fly. Also, in high chop using a heavy swivel helps dampen the bobber's bounce and the pattern(s) on the other end appear to behave in a more natural manor.

    I use oblong bobbers with the narrow diameter end facing down and the peg down as well. I use a swivel that is heavy enough to stand the bobber upright on the surface. Even the lightest of bites is more easily identified with a taught system and you will hook fish that you would not even know "licked" your pattern otherwise.

    Using a larger heavy swivel also has the benefit of detouring fish from mistaking the swivel as pupa.

    In Oregon you cannot use a swivel system in fly fishing only waters by law (per conversation with OSP), but all other waters it's legal to use this system.


    Randy
     
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  16. IveofIone

    IveofIone Active Member

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    Randy, you had us going there for awhile with your 'taught' leaders! I was afraid I was going to have to start teaching my leaders something!!

    Ive
     
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  17. Jim Wallace

    Jim Wallace Smells like low tide

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    Swivels...Oh my gawd! Weren't bobbers enough of a foray into the gray zone already? This chironomid fishing is getting to resemble fishing with a single Pautskie's Ball 'O Fire on a size 14 hook dangled 3 feet beneath a swivel on 2# test, with a small slip sinker above the swivel and a slip bobber with a bobber stop.
    I actually committed such crimes with my Fenwick ff80 and a small closed faced spinning reel.:eek: Back in the mid-60's. I think the statute of imitations for such violations is long past, but in my defense, I will say that I did often employ the hand-twist retrieve.
     
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  18. Greg Armstrong

    Greg Armstrong Active Member

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    I preferred open face spinning reels back then Jim. In my case, I found that a Mitchell 300 was the perfect compliment to that deadly combo!
    Sometimes we'd substitute the egg hook with a Wright & McGill snelled worm hook with TWO salmon eggs at once - to get the big ones.
    If I remember correctly, Pautzke's motto was; "Soft - But Satisfying"

    Pautzkes "Balls of Fire" story... http://www.pautzke.com/pautzke_egg.php
     
  19. Peyton00

    Peyton00 Active Member

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    "fly" fishing has come a long ways. It is nice that we can run in the 'same circles' even when GEAR fishing with a fly rod... chironomids, wet flies etc. Fly fishing is a great COMMUNITY!
     
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  20. Sinkline

    Sinkline Active Member

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    Ooopps, taut, taught, tawwt, tot..., something like that. :)


    Randy
     
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