Tribe Drift Netting Spawning Steelhead on the Hoh?

Discussion in 'Steelhead' started by JesseC, Apr 4, 2013.

  1. _WW_ Fishes with Wolves

    Posts: 1,941
    Skagit River
    Ratings: +675 / 0
    So...with your first sentence you condemn all WA TRIBES for the acts of a few individuals in one tribe who may in fact be acting legally? Nice work there! After all that heavy lifting you should take a break but with zealous fervor you continue with the suggestion that we should be willing to close all rivers to fishing? And in closing you accuse others who demonstrate to practice responsible C&R fishing of "sends the wrong message".

    This post of yours that I quoted is the #1 reason why your message, no matter what intentions may be behind it, will not be taken seriously.
    bennysbuddy likes this.
  2. freestoneangler Not to be confused with Freestone

    Posts: 4,155
    Edgewood, WA
    Ratings: +797 / 1
    I know they are acting legally...that is the point...which I find ridiculous. I think the tribes could (should) take a much more aggressive position on this. Steelhead stocks have been in trouble for years, yet we (collectively) continue to stress them. Why is it so difficult for folks to opt out until stocks are well clear or danger? I love fishing for them as much as most of you, but have come to the conclusion that it is just not worth the risk.

    I think it difficult to argue that if we all take the most conservative approach to saving these fish (by leaving them the hell alone) they'll have the best chance for survival. To argue otherwise means there is a personal agenda being sought; typically of the monetary or narcissistic variety.

    I'm curious, if the tribes were willing to take a complete hands off, no fishing position, would you?
  3. JesseC Active Member

    Posts: 1,997
    seattle, wa
    Ratings: +774 / 0
    I have some pretty cool pictures of you holding a nice steelhead in December. What sort of illogical PETA shit have you been smoking since?! ;)
  4. Sean Beauchamp Hot and Heavy at yer 6

    Posts: 2,146
    Shoreline, WA, U.S.
    Ratings: +518 / 1

    Unfortunately buddy you don't know shit about what is or isn't happening on the coast unless you read about it on an Internet forum. Because the tribe claims they are fishing under a "ceremonial permit" doesn't mean much to me. It's all apart of the illusion that there are rules and that "someone" is watching. I don't buy it the whole process is poisoned and I KNOW that. I have emails in and phone calls waiting to be returned but I predict they all go unanswered. Until then maybe we should all stick to what we know and not chitter chat the BS on the internets. Call or email if you care and don't apologize. When they run you out of run with two sleds and drift nets on an unscheduled day they don't apologize either
    JS, Jonathan Tachell and JesseCFowl like this.
  5. freestoneangler Not to be confused with Freestone

    Posts: 4,155
    Edgewood, WA
    Ratings: +797 / 1
    Everyone knows the Bogachiel only has hatchery stock...both the clipped and un-clipped variety ;) All kidding aside, I'm OK with not fishing for them at all if it gives them the best chance of survival and hopefully rebuilding numbers.
  6. Evan Burck Fudge Dragon

    Posts: 6,503
    Duvall, wa
    Ratings: +1,706 / 2
    Right there with you. My callings have generally gone un dealt with. The biologists are good to talk to, but they can't help us much other than pass the word along. Tribal enforcement has been very, very helpful in dealing with derelict nets I've reported, but when I call about unscheduled netting and all that, seems I get nowhere.

    Personally, I've decided to remove myself as part of the problem out there for the most part. I can't complain about those fish getting gang raped, then go out there with everyone else. I am sticking to one trip per season, and that's it for me. This year, all that one trip did was remind me why I don't get quite the joy from out there that I did when I started fishing there.
  7. freestoneangler Not to be confused with Freestone

    Posts: 4,155
    Edgewood, WA
    Ratings: +797 / 1
    I've read this three times and still have no frigging idea what your trying to say. Maybe you're just so amped up to blast my posts you don't really bother to read them? And, for the record "buddy", I've written plenty of letters about this shit (long before e-mail was in fashion) to the WDFW and specific tribes trying to stop netting practices while wild fish are in the system... obviously those efforts, like today's are largely being ignored.
  8. JesseC Active Member

    Posts: 1,997
    seattle, wa
    Ratings: +774 / 0
    This thread is nauseating. This is the last great run of steelhead in the country. This is the last one... we should all be red hot pissed and up in arms about protecting it. There's a lot that can be done if you have even a little motivation

    1) Taking videos and pictures of the tribes abusing their permitted allotment.
    2) Calling WDFW
    3) Calling tribal enforcement
    4) Calling the Monteray Bay aquarium to have steelhead NOT listed on the "good to eat" column.
    5) Working with the Wild Olympics campaign to draw attention to the issue. (they obviously have a powerful lobbying effort)

    Here's some things that are SURE NOT to do absolutely anything.

    1) Randomly apologizing or being really super nice so we don't hurt anyone's feelings?
    2) Stop fishing the rivers - you're not winning the game so you're going home?
    3) Berate others who are trying. - you're not making progress so to hell with it?

    I'd say if you're in the bottom three, you ought to stop for a minute and think about the consequences of your actions. It's good to hear how certain tactics have failed so others can learn. But, try to have a productive seat at the table and encourage others towards real progress rather than useless debates leading towards discouragement and the same "give up" attitude for the people still in the game.
  9. Evan Burck Fudge Dragon

    Posts: 6,503
    Duvall, wa
    Ratings: +1,706 / 2
    Yes, because I don't think tribes are the only thing abusing these fish. There are many other rivers in this state, so I've taken up to learning a new winter game. I definitely haven't gone home.
  10. Sean Beauchamp Hot and Heavy at yer 6

    Posts: 2,146
    Shoreline, WA, U.S.
    Ratings: +518 / 1
    1) what does WDFW have to do with it? They have no say in what the tribes do

    2) what does the harvest management plan state for the season for tribe and sport anglers?

    3) who monitors tribal take and where are these numbers?

    4) what happens when the tribes hatchery run is killed in utero because of IHN? (Do we throw em a wild bone?)

    5) how is the spring chinook fishery managed considering the hoh doesn't plant and the wild stock is severely depressed? (What about factored incidental mortality of late arriving winter steel, spawning steel and early wild summer steel?)

    6) what is the process for receiving a "ceremonial permit" and who is monitoring take on this "fishery?"

    7) when someone is reported for violation of "rules" what happens?

    Someone might as well answer my questions???? Internet experts have at it! I'm all ears. Freestoneangler you're up first since you sent mail by pony express that one time and need credit for it.
  11. JesseC Active Member

    Posts: 1,997
    seattle, wa
    Ratings: +774 / 0
    When that one gets over run I hope you find another one to move on to?
  12. PT Physhicist

    Posts: 3,593
    Edmonds, WA
    Ratings: +752 / 2
    Sometimes it's best to admit you know nothing and gather information rather than spew your BS louder and louder as though that will somehow prove you know what you're flaming on about.

    My guess is you'll just keep yelling louder.
    JS likes this.
  13. orangeradish Bobo approved

    Posts: 2,471
    Capital City
    Ratings: +491 / 0
    I am deeply saddened by the fact that there are this many people who are passionate about this issue, yet it still seems like an insurmountable obstacle. This isn't a dig at anyone who has posted here. In fact, I personally know a bunch of you, and I'm proud to call you guys friends. I hope the differences in opinions doesn't prevent the sharing of ideas. Keep the fire stoked. Let our frustration be a call to action. Be an example on here, on the water, in our communities. If one person reads this thread, and makes one phone call, that is a step in the right direction. I'm not even certain that there is enough time left to turn things around. The only thing that is certain, is that if we do nothing, we can kiss these fish goodbye. Keep fighting, guys!

    Jason
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  14. Evan Burck Fudge Dragon

    Posts: 6,503
    Duvall, wa
    Ratings: +1,706 / 2
    A winter time full of videogames and internet pr0n
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  15. bennysbuddy the sultan of swing

    Posts: 2,364
    m-ville
    Ratings: +737 / 0
    With the current state of winter & spring steelhead fishing, maybe its time to start a videogame/ dvd porn swap forum . This would give members another option other than internet fighting to quell their boredom!!!
    Evan Burck likes this.
  16. freestoneangler Not to be confused with Freestone

    Posts: 4,155
    Edgewood, WA
    Ratings: +797 / 1
    Funny, I haven't heard one person say they'd be willing not to fish them in order to protect them...
  17. bennysbuddy the sultan of swing

    Posts: 2,364
    m-ville
    Ratings: +737 / 0
    I have not fished them in about three years now, so there..... And I know a bunch of other real good steelheaders both bait & fly that have moved on to other interest . So can we move on now or should I hijack this blog with a Wingbobber plunking troll to get this blog that has been hijacked from gillnetting the Hoh to this political agenda on who loves native steehead more interesting...
  18. _WW_ Fishes with Wolves

    Posts: 1,941
    Skagit River
    Ratings: +675 / 0
    Which fish are you talking about?
  19. Derek Day Rockyday

    Posts: 567
    Olympia
    Ratings: +146 / 0
    Demand. That's the only thing that we could possibly impact. A narrowly focused, well planned awareness/social marketing (not to be confused with social media) campaign could be effective. If you could keep it out of restaurants and grocery stores, you might be able to dry up the market.

    BTW. The Seafood Watch list doesn't list steelhead as 'good to eat'. Farm raised rainbows are in the 'best choice' category. However, there could be some confusion because of the 'steelhead' 'market name'. It might be worth seeing if they would add a caveat to the listing indicating the possibility of confusion. Or, if MBA stopped acknowledging the 'steelhead' market name, that might work. However, it's not so much a conservation issue as it is a policy issue. There are harvestable numbers of steelhead in some PNW rivers. That's not to say they're being harvested at sustainable rates, or that it makes sense to gillnet and sell as table fare the region's premier sport firsh.

    Trying to restrict/regulate tribal harvest is next to impossible. The 'conservation exception' means that the state could regulate tribal fisheries,if, it were a conserservation necessity. However, it can be invoked only as a last resort. So, we would have to stop fishing first (even if we did, the tribes would have a strong argument that it is not, in fact a necessity).

    Also, the tribes think the way we treat our 'half' of the steelhead is equally deplorable. We catch and release nearly every fish in the system for our grip-n-grins. The tribe would far prefer that we just bonk our half of the harvestables and leave the rest of the fish unmolested. The other thing to consider is that even if there were no demand for wild steelhead there would still be tribe members who would go fishing. We, as steelhead fishermen, actually have a lot more in common with tribal fisherman than either party thinks (in particular I remember explaining to a table full of tribal hatchery managers that sportsfishermen are the only other people who give a shit about fish--a point they begrudgingly accepted). One day on the Skagit, I saw four boats trade drifts from dawn to dusk for a handfull of sockey (maybe 10). They lost money for the day. They did it because, just like us standing waist deep in a river to not catch fish, it's about the act of fishing, being on the river. It's a culture and a lifestyle as much as a way of making a living.
  20. Chris Johnson Member: Native Fish Society

    Posts: 1,797
    Bellingham Wa.
    Ratings: +324 / 1
    Thanks Derek, for the well reasoned post. Railing about tribal netting has been going on since before Bolt, and has done no good. I agree we should be vigilant in reporting abuse no matter the abusers race or fishing method ( how many locals bonk more than one fish?), but anger and accusations are useless. Drying up the market is a good idea, there also needs to be something else for these folks to do, not alot happening on the lower Hoh for work these days and I don't think a casino would fly out there.