Tribe Drift Netting Spawning Steelhead on the Hoh?

Discussion in 'Steelhead' started by JesseC, Apr 4, 2013.

  1. _WW_ Fishes with Wolves

    Posts: 1,823
    Skagit River
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    So...with your first sentence you condemn all WA TRIBES for the acts of a few individuals in one tribe who may in fact be acting legally? Nice work there! After all that heavy lifting you should take a break but with zealous fervor you continue with the suggestion that we should be willing to close all rivers to fishing? And in closing you accuse others who demonstrate to practice responsible C&R fishing of "sends the wrong message".

    This post of yours that I quoted is the #1 reason why your message, no matter what intentions may be behind it, will not be taken seriously.
    bennysbuddy likes this.
  2. freestoneangler Not to be confused with Freestone

    Posts: 3,726
    Edgewood, WA
    Ratings: +611 / 1
    I know they are acting legally...that is the point...which I find ridiculous. I think the tribes could (should) take a much more aggressive position on this. Steelhead stocks have been in trouble for years, yet we (collectively) continue to stress them. Why is it so difficult for folks to opt out until stocks are well clear or danger? I love fishing for them as much as most of you, but have come to the conclusion that it is just not worth the risk.

    I think it difficult to argue that if we all take the most conservative approach to saving these fish (by leaving them the hell alone) they'll have the best chance for survival. To argue otherwise means there is a personal agenda being sought; typically of the monetary or narcissistic variety.

    I'm curious, if the tribes were willing to take a complete hands off, no fishing position, would you?
  3. JesseC Active Member

    Posts: 1,910
    seattle, wa
    Ratings: +669 / 0
    I have some pretty cool pictures of you holding a nice steelhead in December. What sort of illogical PETA shit have you been smoking since?! ;)
  4. Sean Beauchamp Teepee Creatchin'

    Posts: 2,067
    Shoreline, WA, U.S.
    Ratings: +369 / 1

    Unfortunately buddy you don't know shit about what is or isn't happening on the coast unless you read about it on an Internet forum. Because the tribe claims they are fishing under a "ceremonial permit" doesn't mean much to me. It's all apart of the illusion that there are rules and that "someone" is watching. I don't buy it the whole process is poisoned and I KNOW that. I have emails in and phone calls waiting to be returned but I predict they all go unanswered. Until then maybe we should all stick to what we know and not chitter chat the BS on the internets. Call or email if you care and don't apologize. When they run you out of run with two sleds and drift nets on an unscheduled day they don't apologize either
    JS, Jonathan Tachell and JesseCFowl like this.
  5. freestoneangler Not to be confused with Freestone

    Posts: 3,726
    Edgewood, WA
    Ratings: +611 / 1
    Everyone knows the Bogachiel only has hatchery stock...both the clipped and un-clipped variety ;) All kidding aside, I'm OK with not fishing for them at all if it gives them the best chance of survival and hopefully rebuilding numbers.
  6. Evan Burck Fudge Dragon

    Posts: 6,285
    Duvall, wa
    Ratings: +1,489 / 2
    Right there with you. My callings have generally gone un dealt with. The biologists are good to talk to, but they can't help us much other than pass the word along. Tribal enforcement has been very, very helpful in dealing with derelict nets I've reported, but when I call about unscheduled netting and all that, seems I get nowhere.

    Personally, I've decided to remove myself as part of the problem out there for the most part. I can't complain about those fish getting gang raped, then go out there with everyone else. I am sticking to one trip per season, and that's it for me. This year, all that one trip did was remind me why I don't get quite the joy from out there that I did when I started fishing there.
  7. freestoneangler Not to be confused with Freestone

    Posts: 3,726
    Edgewood, WA
    Ratings: +611 / 1
    I've read this three times and still have no frigging idea what your trying to say. Maybe you're just so amped up to blast my posts you don't really bother to read them? And, for the record "buddy", I've written plenty of letters about this shit (long before e-mail was in fashion) to the WDFW and specific tribes trying to stop netting practices while wild fish are in the system... obviously those efforts, like today's are largely being ignored.
  8. JesseC Active Member

    Posts: 1,910
    seattle, wa
    Ratings: +669 / 0
    This thread is nauseating. This is the last great run of steelhead in the country. This is the last one... we should all be red hot pissed and up in arms about protecting it. There's a lot that can be done if you have even a little motivation

    1) Taking videos and pictures of the tribes abusing their permitted allotment.
    2) Calling WDFW
    3) Calling tribal enforcement
    4) Calling the Monteray Bay aquarium to have steelhead NOT listed on the "good to eat" column.
    5) Working with the Wild Olympics campaign to draw attention to the issue. (they obviously have a powerful lobbying effort)

    Here's some things that are SURE NOT to do absolutely anything.

    1) Randomly apologizing or being really super nice so we don't hurt anyone's feelings?
    2) Stop fishing the rivers - you're not winning the game so you're going home?
    3) Berate others who are trying. - you're not making progress so to hell with it?

    I'd say if you're in the bottom three, you ought to stop for a minute and think about the consequences of your actions. It's good to hear how certain tactics have failed so others can learn. But, try to have a productive seat at the table and encourage others towards real progress rather than useless debates leading towards discouragement and the same "give up" attitude for the people still in the game.
  9. Evan Burck Fudge Dragon

    Posts: 6,285
    Duvall, wa
    Ratings: +1,489 / 2
    Yes, because I don't think tribes are the only thing abusing these fish. There are many other rivers in this state, so I've taken up to learning a new winter game. I definitely haven't gone home.
  10. sopflyfisher Active Member

    Posts: 490
    Where the fish are located
    Ratings: +255 / 0
    Hard to know where to start with this one. First off the tribe frequently abuses their "rights" to hammer these stocks. That is no secret. Second the wdfw or any other governing body seems to be completely castrated when dealing with the tribes. Which is total bs as the tribes imho are completely out of control in many cases. Furthermore there are good folks in the tribe that do care as i and others have worked with them yet the majority seem to have the same attitude as the idiots that kill their wild fish "cause its legal". Therefore it is pretty easy to generalize the tribe as a whole as not giving a Shit. Is that unfair? Probably not. I live here i see and smell bs frequently when dealing with this issue. Just remember it is our resource and the powers that be seem to have little want to protect it. It therefore falls on the citizen to police. Bs for sure, but love it or lose it. I for one am very frustrated and fucking pissed. What can be done? I don't know but the tactful route seems to not be working. I would stop fishing the native season if they would quit netting it. However it seems to be the passionate anglers as the only folks who really care about saving these fish and i personally don't feel c and r when done lower in the system effects spawning success a great deal. However crowding the rivers and marketing the op as the last place to catch a wild fish certainly is not helping things either. In my opinion the hoh is damn near unfishable or at least unswingable due to crowds and tribal annihilation of your chosen quarry and i don't even fish weekends. My condolences to those that must. Sadly many other rivers are going this route out here. Like cancer the problem is growing as popularity increases along with illegal guiding, tribal netting, and overall more users. Yet the regulations for sport and tribal seems to be relatively unchanged. Time the tribe gets with the times. Do u want to be primitive fishing culture or run casino? It will not be long and the hoh will just be the little Fraser/Thompson. The Canadians seemed to be equally impotent at dealing with the problem and we all know the results. i mean hell we subsidize everyone else in this state, perhaps we should pay them to not net? Don't even get me started on the"cowboys". These are white guys who many have other jobs that continue to net cause they have a permit to do so. What a crock. Is there anyone who has any power who gives a Shit about wild fish?
  11. Sean Beauchamp Teepee Creatchin'

    Posts: 2,067
    Shoreline, WA, U.S.
    Ratings: +369 / 1
    1) what does WDFW have to do with it? They have no say in what the tribes do

    2) what does the harvest management plan state for the season for tribe and sport anglers?

    3) who monitors tribal take and where are these numbers?

    4) what happens when the tribes hatchery run is killed in utero because of IHN? (Do we throw em a wild bone?)

    5) how is the spring chinook fishery managed considering the hoh doesn't plant and the wild stock is severely depressed? (What about factored incidental mortality of late arriving winter steel, spawning steel and early wild summer steel?)

    6) what is the process for receiving a "ceremonial permit" and who is monitoring take on this "fishery?"

    7) when someone is reported for violation of "rules" what happens?

    Someone might as well answer my questions???? Internet experts have at it! I'm all ears. Freestoneangler you're up first since you sent mail by pony express that one time and need credit for it.
  12. JesseC Active Member

    Posts: 1,910
    seattle, wa
    Ratings: +669 / 0
    When that one gets over run I hope you find another one to move on to?
  13. PT Physhicist

    Posts: 3,495
    Edmonds, WA
    Ratings: +652 / 1
    Sometimes it's best to admit you know nothing and gather information rather than spew your BS louder and louder as though that will somehow prove you know what you're flaming on about.

    My guess is you'll just keep yelling louder.
    JS likes this.
  14. orangeradish Bobo approved

    Posts: 2,448
    Capital City
    Ratings: +460 / 0
    I am deeply saddened by the fact that there are this many people who are passionate about this issue, yet it still seems like an insurmountable obstacle. This isn't a dig at anyone who has posted here. In fact, I personally know a bunch of you, and I'm proud to call you guys friends. I hope the differences in opinions doesn't prevent the sharing of ideas. Keep the fire stoked. Let our frustration be a call to action. Be an example on here, on the water, in our communities. If one person reads this thread, and makes one phone call, that is a step in the right direction. I'm not even certain that there is enough time left to turn things around. The only thing that is certain, is that if we do nothing, we can kiss these fish goodbye. Keep fighting, guys!

    Jason
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  15. Evan Burck Fudge Dragon

    Posts: 6,285
    Duvall, wa
    Ratings: +1,489 / 2
    A winter time full of videogames and internet pr0n
    doublespey and KerryS like this.
  16. bennysbuddy the sultan of swing

    Posts: 1,902
    m-ville
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    With the current state of winter & spring steelhead fishing, maybe its time to start a videogame/ dvd porn swap forum . This would give members another option other than internet fighting to quell their boredom!!!
    Evan Burck likes this.
  17. freestoneangler Not to be confused with Freestone

    Posts: 3,726
    Edgewood, WA
    Ratings: +611 / 1
    Funny, I haven't heard one person say they'd be willing not to fish them in order to protect them...
  18. bennysbuddy the sultan of swing

    Posts: 1,902
    m-ville
    Ratings: +456 / 0
    I have not fished them in about three years now, so there..... And I know a bunch of other real good steelheaders both bait & fly that have moved on to other interest . So can we move on now or should I hijack this blog with a Wingbobber plunking troll to get this blog that has been hijacked from gillnetting the Hoh to this political agenda on who loves native steehead more interesting...
  19. sopflyfisher Active Member

    Posts: 490
    Where the fish are located
    Ratings: +255 / 0
    What a cluster.
  20. _WW_ Fishes with Wolves

    Posts: 1,823
    Skagit River
    Ratings: +570 / 0
    Which fish are you talking about?