Washington we have a problem ( wolf attack )

Discussion in 'Fly Fishing Forum' started by Tom O'Riley, Oct 10, 2011.

  1. Dan Nelson Hiker, Fisher, Writer, Bum

    Posts: 807
    Puyallup, WA
    Ratings: +333 / 5
    Notice also that this "news source" points to extraterrestrials living n Brazil:
    http://unexplainedmysteriesofthewor...razil-does-this-video-prove-that-aliens-exist

    Not the most reliable source to quote, I'd say. Got any scholastic research to back up your tabloid claims?
  2. Kaiserman content

    Posts: 2,592
    Ratings: +401 / 0
    I'm not sure if you are agreeing with me or not :hmmm:. However, what you say can be true at times, probably more than we all wish to admit.

    That being said, I use to stand firmly on the side for wolf introduction. After hearing reports and seeing them with my own eyes, I like to think I stand in the middle somewhere on this one. I don't want them annihilated like some, just managed - that's all. Like I said before many times, if left unchecked they will continue to cause problems.
  3. constructeur Active Member

    Posts: 1,515
    Seattle, Wa
    Ratings: +410 / 0
    Humans or wolves?!?
  4. Jumbo Member

    Posts: 125
    Rural Western Wa, USA.
    Ratings: +9 / 0
    constructeur is right on!!!

    OH MY GOD, THERE ARE WOLVES OUT THERE!!!

    THEY WILL CAUSE PROBLEMS!!!

    what a load of crap and a waste of badnwidth this is.
  5. Richard Olmstead BigDog

    Posts: 2,485
    Seattle, WA
    Ratings: +786 / 0
    Tallguy,

    I understand the distinction between species and subspecies. I also understand that the endangered species act has, on occasion, placed a weight on infraspecific ranks that cause taxonomists to cringe. That's why having real data about genetic relatedness is so valuable. TomB's reply offers a good explanation for why this is so.

    You might disagree that reintroducing wolves into Yellowstone and Idaho was the right thing to do, but I don't think you should try to argue that the wrong source population was used for that introduction.

    I think it is worth noting that there was a substantial opposition to wolf reintroduction from within the environmental community, because there was a credible argument that wolves already were reintroducing themselves into Montana and Idaho. Sightings as far south as Yellowstone were known before the introduction program began, although there was disagreement over whether the occasional lone wolf ranging that far would result in natural re-establishment. If that argument had held sway, the wolves that eventually would have established in the northern US Rockies would have come from the same source populations in Alberta and BC, and would have had greater federal protection than the 'experimental,' 'non-essential' wolves that derived from the USFWS reintroduction.

    I don't think there is significant portion of professional wildlife biologists who think the USFWS "screwed up" in this reintroduction. Quite the opposite, it has been viewed as a tremendous success, with a lot learned about the dynamics of a keystone predator in natural ecosystems, and evidence that ecosystems are returning to a more natural state in ways far beyond the balance of wolf and elk populations. For example, evidence from Yellowstone has shown that the reintroduction of wolves has increased raptor populations (by reducing coyote populations, which had grown in the absence of wolves, thereby increasing small mammals that hawks and eagles prey on), and improving fish habitat (by forcing elk and moose to spend less time in the willow thickets lining streams, in order to keep sight lines open to watch for wolves, thereby permitting damaged riparian habitat to recover). Since this is a fly-fishing forum, we should all be happy about that!

    Dick
  6. Lugan Joe Streamer

    Posts: 2,378
    Beautiful View, WA
    Ratings: +760 / 2
  7. Gary Thompson dirty dog

    Posts: 3,891
    East Wenatchee, WA
    Ratings: +131 / 0
    Just don't dress up like "Little Red Riding Hood" and ya should be good to go.
    I like the idea that there are wolves out there, and lions, and bears, O my.
  8. Itchy Dog Some call me Kirk Werner

    Posts: 3,729
    Doo-vall
    Ratings: +422 / 0
    Gary, where there are wolves there are loins. And backstraps. But for how long? ;)
  9. kidwithdog Guest

    Posts: 0
    Ratings: +0 / 0
    WDFW, or any government agency, is never truly neutral. In fact, "true," in any form of the word, should never be associated with a government agency. This is nothing against Lugan, the poster, but rather the false authority the Fish and Wildlife Services have engendered themselves with and the detrimentally fallacious trust they have gained from our western states. I grew up in an area where wolf predation has become a reality and the ODFW is denying their impact at least half the time.
    They are great animals, intelligent, lithe, top of the food chain, on and on, but they do not have a harmonious place in the Pac NW. I've seen this picture many times on Facebook in different contexts, so I'm with Lugan, I'm not sure about its validity. However, don't take Fish and Wildlife's word as the final word for what's happening with wolves.
  10. Gary Thompson dirty dog

    Posts: 3,891
    East Wenatchee, WA
    Ratings: +131 / 0
    You can see where my mind is "loins" that is.
  11. Salmo_g Active Member

    Posts: 7,472
    Your City ,State
    Ratings: +1,615 / 0
    Kidwithdog,

    Will you please name one or more special interest group that provides money to the USFWS for their press releases or any part of the wolf program? I'm a bit skeptical because I didn't know USFWS gets funding from any source other than the US federal government, or transfers from other federal agencies.

    Sg
  12. Freestone Not to be confused with freestoneangler

    Posts: 2,337
    .
    Ratings: +1,173 / 0
    And I would think that it would be highly illegal to do so...
  13. TallFlyGuy Adipossessed!

    Posts: 869
    Vancouver, WA.
    Ratings: +44 / 0
  14. DimeBrite MA-9 Beach Stalker

    Posts: 863
    Marine Area 9
    Ratings: +332 / 0
    Two weeks ago I crossed the fresh tracks of a good sized wolf in the snow while elk hunting in Montana. I never saw the beast and of course was not stalked or attacked. My brother mentioned that in 2010 a group of hunters claimed to have been stalked by a group of 5 wolves in the same area, but the story was apparently controversial. I also saw black bear, mountain lion, and bobcat tracks (again no attacks). During week long hunt my main concern was not injuring myself slipping on ice/snow. Animal attack the last thing on my mind. I would have been concerned had I been hunting in an area frequented by grizzly bears as they are extremely dangerous when defending a kill site.

    Richar Olmstead makes some very good points about why wolves were reintroduced in Yellowstone: to restore plant and animal ecology in river and stream zones that had been damaged for decades by elk overgrazing. Visitors to Slough Creek and the Lamar Valley can already see the difference wolves have made, with return of small cottonwood trees and other important riparian vegetation. I'm skeptical about wolf reintroduction to places like Rocky Mountain National Park and the Olympic Penninsula though, because the human population/development in these areas is greater and the physical space smaller for wolf packs to spread.
  15. TallFlyGuy Adipossessed!

    Posts: 869
    Vancouver, WA.
    Ratings: +44 / 0
    I would have to strongly disagree with you on the fact that elk overgraze/damage stream zones. I have hunted elk all my life in Idaho and some in WA, and have never seen any damage done by elk to streams etc other than possibly making wallows (sp?). I have seen much worse done/bad damage done by free range cattle and ranchers letting their cattle roam.
  16. Stonefish Triploid and Humpy Hater

    Posts: 3,862
    Pipers Creek
    Ratings: +1,262 / 1
    Would someone please post some pictures of a hunter long arming their Sasquatch kill?
  17. KerryS Ignored Member

    Posts: 6,702
    Sedro Woolley, WA, USA.
    Ratings: +1,744 / 0
    I hear wolves can help with this problem also.
  18. bennysbuddy the sultan of swing

    Posts: 2,262
    m-ville
    Ratings: +675 / 0
    I wish somebody would reintroduce wild boars they would be a good food source for wolves,
  19. kidwithdog Guest

    Posts: 0
    Ratings: +0 / 0
    Salmo G,

    I don't have sources for who funds the F&W service besides taxpayers. But I don't think it's a stretch to say that the decision makers are not influenced directly by bribe money from interested parties or indirectly, i.e. if they don't make decisions with a pro-wolf bias they will lose political cooperation from groups such as Oregon Wild and the Sierra Club. Their political support is huge, enough to bias the F&W in my opinion.
  20. Mark Walker Active Member

    Posts: 2,760
    So. Cal.
    Ratings: +221 / 1
    ........and after 199 posts, the pack finally turns on itself:rofl::rofl::rofl::beathead: