Washington Fly Fishing Forum banner

What's the future of

2K views 32 replies 24 participants last post by  FinLuver 
#1 ·
Flyfishing? I'm old, and I've been at this a very long time (not quite as long as Old Man...but long enough) and everytime I hear, or read, about another flyshop closing down, I get very concerned about the slow death of something that's been a big and wonderful part of my life for over half a century. And it's not just caused by the rise of the soul-less big box outfitters. It seems I see fewer and fewer flyfishers every season on the waters I've known for decades. The technology is better than ever, but the sport seems to be faltering.

Is it it loss of habitat or, possibly, the loss of recreational time available to a population stuck in the rat-race of economic survival. I'd really hate to see flyfishing become the domain of only the affluent on private water.
 
#2 ·
On most rivers you (speaking collectively) don't notice a lack of fly fisherman. At least most people I know don't see fewer people partaking of it. From a business side of things it definitely seems like the independent shops are going the way of the albatross. What the industry needs is another blockbuster movie. Fly fishing needs Dirty Harry.
 
#3 ·
You're going to see a lot of shops go the wayside. Shops that build and maintain a successful internet following and/or community will survive. Shops that provide significant services, not just retail sales will survive. And shops that exist in major destinations will stick around. Unfortunately the pie is only so big and yes it's shrunk since ARRTI. You'll see a lot more manufacturers bypassing the shops. That's already happening. The manufacturers see the gleaming, low-hanging fruit of increased profit margins in direct sales and aren't willing to look at the long-term impact it has on an industry that relies heavily on services provided by the brick and mortar retailers.

The internet has replaced a lot of what fly shops were. Sources of information. River reports. Bug reports. Information is available immediately now, anytime we want. You can get a hundred product reviews via internet community.

But enjoyment of fly fishing is about a lot more than just information. The shops are an integral and necessary part of that future. I hope that the big guys looking at the changing consumer dynamic in their fucking TPS reports shoot their accountants in the mouths and remind them that the industry is about long term viability, not just short term profits.
 
#4 ·
Without a doubt the fly fishing business has changed dramatically over the decades. While not as old as some here I have been fly fishing for more than 55 years.

For the first couple decades of my fly fishing career I knew of a single fly shop (Patricks) between Tacoma and Bellingham. Following the "movie" there was an explosion of interest in fly fishing and a corresponding development of shops to feed that interest. It could hardly be a surprise that the sport was unable to continue recruit that kinds of numbers of new anglers to support all those shops. How many new rods, reels, etc does a angler need before their "buying" slows down. For myself I have not bought a single new rod in 15 years, a single reel and 4 or 5 lines in the that time period but lots of fly tying materials and hooks. Those small ticket items hardly are adequate to keep a fly shop's door open. While I continue to support those specialized small business as much as I can the reality is that my needs (even though I may be fishing more) are such that my annual spending on gear is not what it was 15 or 20 years ago

Fortunately for the fly shop businesses the huge interest in two handed rods and spey fishing and all the associated specialized needs associated with that method gave the fly shop business a shot in the arm and extended the period the many could stay in business but that too seems to have run its course; or at least new purchases have slowed.

I agree that the closing of many of those shops are huge loss but as in most things those business are cyclic and those that are likely to survival over the long haul are those that adapt. I do find it a bit interesting that at the start of my fly career my gear came from either a "sport shop" or from a mail order business (mostly Herters) and today it is moving back in that direction with internet business replacing the mail order ones.

I suspect that my spending patterns are not all that different than many who have been in the game for an extended time.

Curt
 
#5 ·
It could be that the people that fly fish don't go out because of all the things being stolen out of their vehicles. If I was still in Washington I would be leery of going out. Maybe you all need a car sitter to stop them damn thieves.

I haven't seen a decline here in Montana. Come opening day here the Blue ribbon streams are crowded. Well the ones that are closed for a few months anyway.
 
#9 ·
It could be that the people that fly fish don't go out because of all the things being stolen out of their vehicles. If I was still in Washington I would be leery of going out. Maybe you all need a car sitter to stop them damn thieves.

I haven't seen a decline here in Montana. Come opening day here the Blue ribbon streams are crowded. Well the ones that are closed for a few months anyway.
I'm not talking about a decrease in flyfishing at blueribbon destination waters, I'm referring to my observations at the average kind of places I used to see working class stiffs flyfish. Hell, I don't even see as many bait fisherman out there anymore.

Maybe it will change when huge numbers of boomers retire (if they ever get to) and have to find something to do on the way to the boneyard.

I think it's going the way of golf....golf manhours have been decreasing for at least twenty years. The industry has been shitting its pants over it...citing economics (but it was faltering during the boom years too), the lack of appeal to potential new entrants, or the fact that dad really can't spend entire days off with the boys.

It's similar to hunter manhours per year...though gun sales are astronomical, sporting arm sales have been declining. When I'm out there flyfishing during the start of deer season (fall stillwater is the very best fishing of the year...I hit it hard) I don't see as many hunters as I used to, even though there's shitloads of deer.

When I was young, buck season filled the woods with tents, campers, and gunshots.

Maybe it's because there's just so many other things to do nowadays, like bullshitting in internet forums and such.
 
#6 ·
Has anyone considered the burden on the small shop owner?

The cost of inventory alone must be staggering. Then there is the
shop itself. It must be in a high visibility area to attract attention.
Most fly fishing equipment has undergone a technical upgrade.
Rods that cost a few hundred dollars forty years ago, now run into twice that and more. Fly lines run twice as much as then. Reels are
a little more competitive but still cost more. And we have not even gotten into the other things like waders, shoes, clothing etc.

And then there is the tying materials inventory.

Match that with a shrinking availability of habitat for access and fishing and we have a formula for reduction.

My take is that fishing in general, appeals to a wide segment of our society. But it is in competition with a lot of other recreational activities. Some do not want to spend the time and money to get involved. Others greet it with a passion and embrace it as such.
We, here, generally fall into the latter category. A much larger segment fall into the former.

I believe what we need is a little advertising on TV, with some popular branded item, advertising their product, using a fly fisherman standing in a quiet pool, laying out fifty feet of fly line into the bright summer sunshine, and a bright ROYAL COACHMAN gently settling into a pool. If a 22 inch bow happened to accept the offering, it would not hurt a thing.
 
#7 ·
Has anyone considered the burden on the small shop owner?

The cost of inventory alone must be staggering. Then there is the
shop itself. It must be in a high visibility area to attract attention.
Most fly fishing equipment has undergone a technical upgrade.
Rods that cost a few hundred dollars forty years ago, now run into twice that and more. Fly lines run twice as much as then. Reels are
a little more competitive but still cost more. And we have not even gotten into the other things like waders, shoes, clothing etc.

And then there is the tying materials inventory.

Match that with a shrinking availability of habitat for access and fishing and we have a formula for reduction.

My take is that fishing in general, appeals to a wide segment of our society. But it is in competition with a lot of other recreational activities. Some do not want to spend the time and money to get involved. Others greet it with a passion and embrace it as such.
We, here, generally fall into the latter category. A much larger segment fall into the former.

I believe what we need is a little advertising on TV, with some popular branded item, advertising their product, using a fly fisherman standing in a quiet pool, laying out fifty feet of fly line into the bright summer sunshine, and a bright ROYAL COACHMAN gently settling into a pool. If a 22 inch bow happened to accept the offering, it would not hurt a thing.
Quit day dreaming.
 
#10 ·
Amoung the working class, IMHO, the current economy most likely the reason for a decline. Just not enough discretionary income left for the pursuit of pleasure. Interesting, but not surprising, that the sale of sporting firearms is down while firearms sales in general are exploding.
 
#12 ·
Tough to say...Living in central Oregon I suppose that many people would consider this place a destination type area....We have lost some fly shops over the last 10yrs, but we have gained a couple also...
There are a couple fly shops in the area that seem to be doing a lot better then the rest...One of them said its almost unbelievable how well they are doing
I think the shops that are successful have a large inventory, have a good website and do online sales, and they have really, really good shop guys, people that know the waters, and know how to talk/sell to people.

We have one shop here that has really decided to go big or go home, huge floor space, huge inventory, they put in a growler bar, and they are a huge seller of traeger's also....

I think the sport at least here locally will be fine....but long term I think one or two shops will still disappear somewhere along the lines....
 
#14 ·
I'd like to think that all the old fly guys who have been dying off or fading away around my area are being replaced by young anglers developing an interest in fly fishing.
I caught a ray of hope when conversing with some of the young crew that were hanging out at the Westport boat basin, trying to get a Coho to bite, one day last month. One of 'em had a flyrod with him, and a box of trout flies, and one of his buddies claimed that he was also getting into fly fishing, too. So there is hope.
These young guys seem to view themselves as budding alpha anglers, and want to cover all the bases. They didn't look like big spenders, though.
 
#15 ·
There are most likely many causes. One cause that I would like to bring up is the fact that each generation seems to be getting lazier, and lazier. I think that it is possible that when someone enjoys fishing, or is going to be entering the hobby of "fishing", they weigh the options out there. I think that most likely 2 out of 10 prospecting anglers decide to choose gear over fly fishing because it is just "easier" to them.
 
#18 ·
As I'm more or less "in the biz" I've watched the sudden popularity of the sport take off like a rocket after "the movie". Shops and manufacturers of flyfishing products rose proportionally. The move wore off.

As a result, the sport is reverting back to much as it was during the 70s. A few shops here and there and only a few major manufacturers of flyfishing paraphernalia.

From my standpoint, this would be a good thing. I watched many flyfishing only fisheries become far too crowded. I was talking with Ted Leeson one day about the popularity of flyfishing and he said he'd gladly give up all the articles and books he's written about the sport to regain the solitude. The popularity did provide a short-lived boom for flyfishing writers but it came at a cost.

However, all angling has taken a hit in Oregon. Over the years, I can't tell you the number of fishing spots I've lost to No Trespassing signs. Fishing access for anglers has gone steadily downward and I don't see that changing in my lifetime.

As a result, the remaining areas where we can fish are becoming more and more crowded for all anglers, flyfishing and spin alike.

Will we end up with a situation similar to England where you pay to fish on private waters? Maybe. But I guess that wouldn't be much different than paying to play golf.

Over the years, I fish less and less so it won't make much difference to me. I'm in the twilight of my flyfishing years. I've lost most of my fishing buddies to age and all the aliments that come with it. We are all winding down.

I have no idea what the sport will look like in 20 years. It is unlikely the No Trespassing signs will be taken down. Instead, more will most likely show up. I primarily fish stillwaters these days because the lakes are still open and not really ever over-crowded.

So while the sport of flyfishing will most likely stabilize as to what it was in the 70s, I have no idea if there will be many rivers you can fish. It doesn't bother me that the popularity of the sport has declined but it sure bothers me that the fishing spots are disappearing more and more each year.
 
#19 ·
Krusty the trends on fishing, hunting and driving licenses among today's youth are all on the downswing. Not only that but the numbers of young adults willing to relocate for better work prospects is also declining. Kids are living longer with their parents and more often in proportionately more educational debt. I'll go out on a limb here but for multiple reasons, there is a general decline in the willingness of young people to take risks of any sort, let alone standing in a river waving a stick with line on it. Probably some great young board member says Boot that's BS, and for them specifically, it probably is. But let's face it, the kids are interested in other things- their entertainments are cheap, mindless, easily gained, addictive and ubiquitous (and hey I am by no means immune to this). Those same entertainment models do not fit well with fishing, let alone fly fishing.

Oh and while I'm on the soapbox, if we design an educational system that constantly reinforces the idea that one out of four questions on a multiple choice exam is right, and the other three are wrong, we are enabling generations of incurious dolts. It is amazing to me that this system persists all the way through graduate schools. Any fisherman worth their salt knows that on the right day and the right time dozens of combinations of methods, presentations etc might get fish to strike, and on the next, maybe none of them work. Ie a good fisherman is very comfortable with uncertainty, and tests hypothesis through their entire outing to define the limits of that uncertainty.

You used to see that curiosity on WFF. Just about every year there'd be some young board member who would post up some ideas about how to make their service project for 12th grade or whatever somehow flyfishing related. I don't think I have seen that thread come up in about four years now. I wonder if the age demographics on this site are shifting to the right...

I have to say that plenty of times I've been on the water and folks have asked me about flyfishing. I always say the same thing, it's not hard to learn and it's really fun.
 
#20 ·
.... I'd really hate to see flyfishing become the domain of only the affluent on private water.
It will most likely be exactly that scenario if America continues the current track towards being Euro-America. Besides, who needs to do the real act of fishing and experiencing the wonderful surroundings fish live when you have Facebook, Twitter and all the "app's" a man could want.
 
#27 ·
Like Curt, I started fly fishing 55 years ago when I was 5 years old. My dad is a fly fisherman (he still does so at age 86) and I suppose you could say I got the bug early. Back in the late 1950's on into the mid- to late-1970's, there were very few fly shops. And most fly shops were located in destination locations.

I grew up in Northeast Pennsylvania, just north of where Jim Leisenring and Vincent Marinaro lived and fished and only 25 miles to the Pocono Mts, and 90 miles to the Catskill streams. Despite this and the area having a rather long fly fishing tradition with a fair number of fly fishers living in the area, there were exactly no fly shops closer than a 70 mile drive.We used to buy our stuff either at the local sporting goods stores (they carried everything from golf and tennis to hunting, camping, and fishing gear back then, not athletic equipment only like today), the local hardware store (some of them back then had a section of hunting and fishing gear), or via mail order.

Heck, back then things we take for granted today like genetic hackle didn't exist unless you were lucky enough to get some birds or eggs from the Dettes, Hebert, of a very few others and raised them yourself. Otherwise, we made due with Indian, Chinese, or other Southeast Asian neck hackle. And if we wanted to get a high end rod, that meant either seeking out a top bamboo rod maker, placing an order with him, paying him either a deposit worth 1/2 the rod or the full-price of the rod and then waiting anywhere from 6 months to 2 years to get the rod, or getting a custom glass rod made by Russ Peak or Powel and waiting a similar amount of time to get the rod.

Most of us thought in terms of Fenwick, J. Kennedy Fisher, and St. Croix glass rods as higher end rods. And we usually had to mail order them. If we were very, very fortunate, we could get our local sporting goods store to get one of them for us.

In other words, it was not easy being a fly fisherman regarding being able to buy rods, lines, flies, reels, or fly tying materials. But despite that, there were still a fair number of fly fishers about.

I started to see a change happening when I was in high school after the old ABC TV program known as THE AMERICAN SPORTSMAN started to show Lee Wulff and Joe Brooks fly fishing at various places in the US and around the world. More folks started to fly fish after seeing these fellows fly fishing on a national TV show. This then resulted in some new books on fly fishing and fly tying being published, which resulted in a bit more interest in fly fishing as well.

It became easier to get good fly fishing gear as we got into the early 1970's when some of the older fly fishers retired and started up very small fly fishing retail stores, sometimes out of their garages. This made it easier because you could find these folks and buy local, instead of having to mail order and wait up to a couple of weeks to get what you wanted and hope nothing was backordered or out-of-stock.

As we got into the late 1970's and on into the 1980's, which was prior to the movie, more retail stores opened dedicated to fly fishing. And gear became even more readily available. Again, quite a few of these new retail operations were started and run by folks who had retired from a career and were able to retire after 25 or 30 years, but because they liked to fly fish, they started up small fly shops.

It was also in around 1968 that Bucky Metz had developed his birds and had enough production to start selling his necks and saddles in a limited fashion. In the 1970's, he was able to increase production a bunch, and we also had Henry Hoffman put his necks and saddles on the market. Thus, we had great hackle available. Also, in the 1970's, there were some other hackle growers entered the market and it became very easy to get hackle of the size and quality you needed to tie the flies you were tying.

Scientific Anglers began selling their system rods in the late 1960's, and this allowed a person to buy a rod and a matching line that cast without under or overloading the rod. Thus, it became easy to match a fly line to a rod. This had a big impact as well. Also, in the 1970's Jimmy Green began experimenting with graphite at Fenwick for making fly rods with his first commercially available ones out in about 1974 or 1975. And Gary Loomis began making rods under the Lamiglas name with I think it was 6 partners in the late 1960's as well. And then he started up Loomis Composites in the mid-1970's because he wanted to move into graphite and his partners at Lamiglas didn't. He then left Loomis Composite and went completely out on his own with G. Loomis in the early 1980's, which he then sold to Shimano who still owns it. Sage got its start in the 1970's as well after Browning bought Fenwick and moved their production to Korea. Fortunately, Jimmy Green went to work for Sage.

Fly fishing retailers made enough money to justify hiring folks to work in the shop, which was a change from the old single or at most 2-man operations most commonly found prior to the 1980's. And the retailer owner demographic also changed from mostly folks who had retired early and who were receiving a decent pension, to folks who relied upon the shop to provide the income they needed to stay alive and support their families.

The guys who had the retirement income coming in only needed to make enough to pay the bills and make a little money to fund a trip to someplace like New Zealand or Argentina to stay in business. The newer ones who relied on the shop for all of their income were in a very different position. They needed (still do) to make enough to support not just the shop, but their family as well. Thus, when profits drop below what they need to support their families, they are forced to look at some other way to make a living. Many got jobs and hired someone to run the shop. However, after a while the guy behind the counter wants to make more than $20,000-$30,000 per year and the owner is put into a bind again. He wants to pay the employees more, but can't afford to do so and keep the doors open. So he ends up closing up shop.

And in the mid-1980's we had an explosion of fly fishing retailers, which became an avalanche after the movie came out. And has as been mentioned, the 2-hand rod revolution hit in the 1990's.

Now, we have folks working longer hours, getting fewer vacation days, higher prices for everything (which incomes haven't kept up with), and folks realizing they don't need to buy the latest whiz-bang rod in the fancy new color and the cool name because once you start to acquire high end equipment, you realize there is very little gain by trading in your high end stuff for the newest high end stuff. Therefore, high end rod sales go down some percentage. Same with high end reels. And folks also realize that they don't need to buy a new fly line every year and only buy a new line when the old one wears out or the buy a new rod for a different line weight.

Thus, we are going back to the modern version of how things used to be 50 years ago. We are able to buy great rod and reels directly from the manufacturer. In fact, the best hardly if ever sell a rod or reel other than directly to the customer. And we have decent, relatively inexpensive rods available at big box retailers like Cabella's (which is very close to the modern day Herter's) and fly shops alike. This is similar to being able to buy Fenwick, St. Croix, and Lamiglas back in the 1950's through the early to mid 1970's. Same with fly reels, which is similar to buying Pflueger or Martin reels back in the day.

It sure seems to me that we are going back to a former model of buying and selling fly fishing equipment.
 
#28 ·
Feel like I may be a good example of this. I'm 32 years old and have 2 kids under the age of 4. Every single one of my buddies who fly fishes also skis, mountain bikes, hunts and competes in things like trail run races or triathlons. While all of those hobbies I enjoy I would consider throwing a fly my passion but there is only so much time and money. While I lived in Seattle, just relocated to dallas, I found it much easier to drive 15 min and be on a sweet mountain bike trail vs 30-90 min of driving to fish. When single I'd get 75-100 days on the river, now I'm lucky to get 10 and my purchasing habits correlate. Now I live 4 blocks from a stocked pond so things may change for time on the water but right now I'm not willing to sacrifice a day a week away from my family to catch a few fish...in due time I'll haul my son w/ me and then it'll be 10x more enjoyable. Just my $0.02.
 
#29 ·
Of everything I have ever done in this life fishing is my favorite. I don't care what happens next. I don't care if people want to sit on their couch and fish on their Xbox. The rest of the world doesn't bother me. All I know is that I love to fish and my 11 year old son does as well. Ill continue fishing, and passing it down to him, until I take a dirt nap. If all the companies go out of business, ill cut down a tree and make stick poles.

I just don't worry about stuff like this. I know what I love to do. I will continue to do so, period.
 
#30 ·
My dad was never a fly fisherman, barely even fished. I was the one who introduced him into fly fishing. I'm 14, and I plan to go to college and get a business degree, and a PhD in Aquatic Entomology, like freestoneangler said, who needs nature and wild trout. I hope to keep fly-fishing an up and running sport.
Technology is just a distraction( yet the thought of trout distracts me when I'm in school).
Hand Salmon-like fish Organism Fish Fishing


Here's a trout I caught in the Sacramento River near Redding, Ca. Caught the frisky guy last Monday.
 
#31 ·
Almost all the guys I run into on our area's "blue ribbon destinations" look to be between 20 and 40 years of age. Most of them don't look like rich kids, I just wish some of them would bend their Yankees hats. I wouldn't be surprised if a drift boat went by on the Bitterroot blasting "dubstep".... Over the last several years I have seen the industry try way, way too hard to market gear towards these "extreme" young bucks. All that AEG Badass Intercontinental Euro Metrosexual Fish Bro Trout Bum stuff turned me on to vintage/used gear, which definitely didn't help the industry.
 
#32 ·
Over the last several years I have seen the industry try way, way too hard to market gear towards these "extreme" young bucks. All that AEG Badass Intercontinental Euro Metrosexual Fish Bro Trout Bum stuff turned me on to vintage/used gear, which definitely didn't help the industry.
Agreed, but it still seems purposeful and image based.

I think for a lot of reasons, the "extreme" young bucks are going to be more likely to be interested in fishing than a lot of other groups. I grew up skateboarding and snowboarding. I know I'm not the only one on here that was. I had always enjoyed fishing, but it wasn't until I blew out my knee while snowboarding (I tried to jump a 60 foot gap, but my board only wanted to go 57 feet) that I became more interested in fishing. It was the perfect sport for someone who considered himself to be adventurous, willing to drive, and unafraid of sub-optimal conditions. In skateboarding and snowboarding, I loved watching the weather conditions and constantly exploring for new areas and new information. It wasn't a difficult transition to fishing. In either sport, you plan the day before trying to maximize your chances of success and you're glued to the forecasts, but really, you don't have any idea how the day is going to turn out, and that's where the fun is. Just like I read water these days, I used to read snow and concrete. A lot of fly-fishermen I meet now come from similar interests. I agree that this group is definitely more "extreme." They seem to be much less likely to be inspired by the history and literature of the sport, and more likely to be trolling the internet, watching 'ski-edit' style video teasers, and tying big, dirty streamers. On the river, you won't see em' because they're 2 miles downstream of the access looking for a 'secret' spot.
 
#33 ·
All good stuff mentioned...

Could the real reason be the decline of "recruitment" of new fly fishers - the teens to 30-somethings??

Lets face it this group of people need to leave the couch or gaming chair.

Today's demands have certainly changed us...it gonna take a self-conscious effort on our part.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top