Winter Stones

Discussion in 'Fly Fishing Entomology' started by Patrick Gould, Jan 27, 2013.

  1. Patrick Gould

    Patrick Gould Active Member

    I came across lots of these guys while cross country skiing along Iron Creek today.
    ImageUploadedByTapatalk1359328231.479741.jpg
     
  2. Taxon

    Taxon Moderator Staff Member

    Hi Patrick-

    Here is a list of the (26) WA species of Slender Winter Snowflies:

    Capniidae Bolshecapnia sasquatchi Sasquatch Snowfly
    Capniidae Capnia confusa Widespread Snowfly
    Capniidae Capnia elongata Cascades Snowfly
    Capniidae Capnia excavata Saddleback Snowfly
    Capniidae Capnia gracilaria Slender Snowfly
    Capniidae Capnia licina Bent Snowfly
    Capniidae Capnia melia Northwest Snowfly
    Capniidae Capnia nana Dwarf Snowfly
    Capniidae Capnia promota Pacific Snowfly
    Capniidae Capnia sextuberculata Six-knobbed Snowfly
    Capniidae Capnura elevata Thicklimb Snowfly
    Capniidae Capnura venosa Falcate Snowfly
    Capniidae Eucapnopsis brevicauda Shorttailed Snowfly
    Capniidae Isocapnia abbreviata Shortlimb Snowfly
    Capniidae Isocapnia agassizi Agassiz Snowfly
    Capniidae Isocapnia grandis Giant Snowfly
    Capniidae Isocapnia palousa
    Capniidae Isocapnia rickeri
    Capniidae Isocapnia spenceri Chilliwack Snowfly
    Capniidae Isocapnia vedderensis Vedder Snowfly
    Capniidae Mesocapnia autumna Autumn Snowfly
    Capniidae Mesocapnia oenone Wine Snowfly
    Capniidae Mesocapnia porrecta Stretched Snowfly
    Capniidae Mesocapnia projecta Spined Snowfly
    Capniidae Paracapnia ensicala Sword Snowfly
    Capniidae Utacapnia imbera Scappoose Snowfly

    However, determining exactly which one it is would require microscopic examination of male genitalia.
     
    Beachmen likes this.
  3. Pat Lat

    Pat Lat Mad Flyentist

    holy crap, I guess Ill have to put more little black stoneflies in my winter box
     
    Beachmen likes this.
  4. Patrick Gould

    Patrick Gould Active Member

    Thanks Taxon. I guess I should have kept one.

    Pat - I was thinking that a very small ant pattern would work well. If a guy timed it right he could get some dry fly action on the upper SF Sno.
     
  5. zen leecher aka bill w

    zen leecher aka bill w born to work, forced to fish

    Patrick, what length would you estimate the stonefly at? I tied up some little green ones based on what I'd see on streams in your area in the late summer.
     
  6. Patrick Gould

    Patrick Gould Active Member

    They were about 1/4"-5/16".
     
  7. zen leecher aka bill w

    zen leecher aka bill w born to work, forced to fish

    Them's little!!
     
  8. kelvin

    kelvin Active Member

    size 20 any one?
     
  9. tkww

    tkww Member

    That's a small stone! The ones I usually see are about a standard #14 shank in length. Of course I only see them steelheading and never see any rises--not to mention it'd be closed for trout anyway.
     
  10. jessejames

    jessejames Flyslinger

    Taxon When I saw these on the North Fork of the Coeur d' Alene river I did my feeble research and found Nemoura winter stones. I have since then been calling them that. From what I see in your post that is probably wrong?
    Do we have nemoura in WA are they more brown than black?
    The winter stone imitation that I tie is a size 16 with coarse dubbing picked out (looks leggy) two wraps of #16 black hackle and a white wing laid flat over the body, I use that real thin foam packing/wrapping sheet for the wing. When the fly gets wet the only thing that floats is the wing. It works well.
    jesse
     
  11. Taxon

    Taxon Moderator Staff Member

    Hi Jesse-

    Excellent question. The Forestflies of family Nemouridae are known as Spring Stoneflies and start emerging starting in March, whereas the Snowflies of family Capniidae are known as Slender Winter Stoneflies and their emergence begins in December. Please see Stonefly Taxonomic Structure. Flyfishers sometimes refer to Nemourids as Mottled Browns. However, some fit that description better than others. Here is a list of the Nemourids found in WA:

    Nemouridae Lednia tumana Mist Forestfly
    Nemouridae Malenka bifurcata No Common Name
    Nemouridae Malenka californica California Forestfly
    Nemouridae Malenka cornuta No Common Name
    Nemouridae Malenka flexura Twisted Forestfly
    Nemouridae Malenka perplexa Coast Forestfly
    Nemouridae Malenka tina Tiny Forestfly
    Nemouridae Malenka wenatchee
    Nemouridae Ostrocerca dimicki Hooked Forestfly
    Nemouridae Ostrocerca foersteri Cascades Forestfly
    Nemouridae Podmosta decepta Least Forestfly
    Nemouridae Podmosta delicatula Delicate Forestfly
    Nemouridae Podmosta obscura Brown-veined Forestfly
    Nemouridae Prostoia besametsa Banded Forestfly
    Nemouridae Soyedina interrupta Broken Forestfly
    Nemouridae Soyedina producta Knobbed Forestfly
    Nemouridae Visoka cataractae Cataract Forestfly
    Nemouridae Zapada cinctipes Common Forestfly
    Nemouridae Zapada columbiana Columbian Forestfly
    Nemouridae Zapada cordillera Cordilleran Forestfly
    Nemouridae Zapada frigida Frigid Forestfly
    Nemouridae Zapada haysi Intermountain Forestfly
    Nemouridae Zapada oregonensis Oregon Forestfly

    Hope this helps.
     
  12. jessejames

    jessejames Flyslinger

    Thanks Roger. Great information as usual.
    jesse
     
  13. Derek Young

    Derek Young 2011 Orvis Endorsed Fly Fishing Guide Of The Year

    Today on the Yakima, a nice hatch near Cle Elum. IMAG0926_BURST002.jpg
     
    kelvin likes this.
  14. Taxon

    Taxon Moderator Staff Member

    Hi Derek,

    I believe it to be of genus Zapada. Here are the WA species:

    Nemouridae Zapada cinctipes Common Forestfly
    Nemouridae Zapada columbiana Columbian Forestfly
    Nemouridae Zapada cordillera Cordilleran Forestfly
    Nemouridae Zapada frigida Frigid Forestfly
    Nemouridae Zapada haysi Intermountain Forestfly
    Nemouridae Zapada oregonensis Oregon Forestfly
     
  15. Beachmen

    Beachmen Active Member

    one thing that i do is when i am gathering insects is put take a few viles with me and when i get home preserve them in everclear. i have a golden stone from when i was 8 that looks like i got it yesterday.
     
    Patrick Gould likes this.
  16. Beachmen

    Beachmen Active Member

    with that i have a few different things from salt water abd fresh water. i have a squid that i landed 2 years ago night fishing (yes i had a license for them), an Isopod, many insects, ect. its a very usefull way of doing it. also the everclear never turns color or damages the sample. its alsmost as if it pickles it lol.
     
  17. Taxon

    Taxon Moderator Staff Member

    Hi Beachman,

    Well, that seems like kind of an expensive preservative, but it obviously works for you. Which do you use, 151 proof or 190 proof? ;)
     
    Steve Call likes this.
  18. Preston

    Preston Active Member

    Ethyl alcohol of what I presume to be about 90% purity is available at Zenith Supplies in Seattle on Roosevelt Way and 63rd at about $7.00/qt. I've used it in the past for for preserving stonefly nymphs and caddis pupae with good results. My former source of small, glass, screw-top vials has gone out of business and if anyone knows of another source I'd like to hear about it.
     
  19. Taxon

    Taxon Moderator Staff Member

    Hi Preston-

    For mail order, BioQuip.
     
  20. Gary Knowels

    Gary Knowels Active Member

    Preston,
    You may get lucky (cheap) if you check at the UW surplus store, but its not a guarantee that they will have them. I think what you are looking for are called scintillation vials. It is only open to the public Tuesday 12-6 pm. If you strike out there I may be able to get you some through my work, how many do you want/need?