Wolves on the Westside?

Discussion in 'Fly Fishing Forum' started by scottr, Aug 19, 2012.

  1. Bill Aubrey

    Bill Aubrey Active Member

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    I refer again to the wolf that lived with me. 100% pure Alaskan born in the wild and raised by man, wolf. She was a sweetie. The only time you would guess she was not a "dog", other than her appearance, was when you watched her run on the tundra or heard her howl and communicate with the local pack. Maybe they were trading recipes. Never even heard her growl, even in self defense from my wife's mean as hell Siamese. Carol was worried when we brought home our baby but she sniffed, gave him a lick and acted like she always did. Kind of like a Lab in wolf's clothing. Sorry, couldn't resist.
     
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  2. Alex MacDonald

    Alex MacDonald Dr. of Doomology

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    Bill, when my daughter began dating, I thought about getting a wolf hybrid, shackling the kid to the dog, and training the hound to growl at the sound of zippers.... Some alien then gave us velcro, and the rest is history..:D .
     
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  3. Freestone

    Freestone Not to be confused with freestoneangler

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    Maybe someone should start a "Rent-A-Wolf" business to help us protect our cars at trailheads, put-ins, etc. I think tweakers might be as afraid of them as the eager boyfriends, LOL!
     
  4. Be Jofus G

    Be Jofus G Banned or Parked

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    Possibly.Some of the breeders are sketchy. I had a 50 and two 25s. All three of them where good dogs. All three where crossed with shepherds.

    My first 25 lived to 20 years old and walked 1.5 ish miles to the bus stop with me every day from kindergarden to 10th grade without a leash and ran straight home after I was on the bus. The scene was 60 houses on 250ish acres in pennsylvania. For those of you who don't know Western Pa, there are more deer ther per sq ft than there are rats in SODO downtown. She never chased one and we had herds running in the back daily. She did enjoy a fresh heart or liver when me and my pops came home from hunting tho.

    My 50... lived with me from my late teens through my collee years untill I started my first business after getting my comp sci degree.... lets just say that there was only one crackhead that (may have potentially) ever broke into my datacenter located in the middle of one of the worst ghettos in the eastern united states. He may also (unconfirmed) no longer have any muscle on his lower leg between his anckle and knee. She lived to the age of 15 and died a happy girl. she had one litter of pups with a german shepherd. I kept one of the bitches.

    That brings me to my other 25, who bit my 8 month old son in the face and I spent weeks in Childrens with him while he went thru multiple bouts of reconstructive surgery. Prior to the incedent the dog slept next to him every night. She followed my wife around and wouldn't let any one unfamilliar to her near my child. He pulled her hair, tugged on her ears, threw stuff at her. All she did was love him, untill one day he tried to pull a rawhide from under her from behind. It was unfortunate, and I'm 100% sure she thought it was my other dog, not my son, but needless to say, she had to go away.

    I'm not talking about 100% or even 2% wolves here. I'm talking about what are essentially ferrel dogs running around our woods. I'm sure homies 100% wolf was awesome and well behaved and a great companion. But it was not a ferral dog. It was not a pack of ferral dogs, and it was not starving. It was also not living next to a federal or state maintained trail that has women, children and small dogs walking in front of it like an old country buffet day in and day out.

    Again, I'm not saying shoot them or hunt them, just take them off the ESA list so you will not have the potential of having your entire future destroyed if you have to defend yourself against one. I'm sure there isn't a person here who would think twice about making a canoe out of the head of a ferral black lab if it attacked him/her or his/hers. Is there?
     
  5. Charles Sullivan

    Charles Sullivan dreaming through the come down

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    This thread is a 50/50 crosss between the energizer bunny and herpes.

    Go Sox,
    cds
     
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  6. Ed Call

    Ed Call Mumbling Moderator Staff Member

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    Thanks for saying please, but consider how foolish you have proven to be to the forum membership by attempting to exile someone to the sandbox. Just because you don't like what is said, you have NO implied or acknowledged regulatory authority in this instance. Simmer down and enjoy the discussion or leave it alone.
     
  7. Roper

    Roper Idiot Savant

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    Congrats Ed, I'm impressed, I might have just told him to STFU, but then I'm a course old cob...:rolleyes:
     
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  8. Jerry White

    Jerry White Member

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    Alright, Alex... you have more energy for this than I do (I'm really tired right now) but here's my 2 cents:

    1. "First, Salmon haven't been completely absent from the rivers and streams here-everybody knows that!" - AM
    Salmon have been extirpated from a huge amout of their former range. Grand Coulee Dam alone destroyed thousands of square miles of salmon habitat. gone- poof. Hells canyon comlex on the snake- gone- salmon gone! In the Columbia Basin there are only 1.5- 5% native runs occupying their former turf. my beloved Spokane river has not seen a salmon since the 1930's. BUT... how about the Elwha as an example? Those fish had been cuttoff from their former range. By your logic, any salmon that re-colonizes is an "invasive species". I believe this is bogus as "native" species readily re-colonize lost habitat.
    2."Second, as you know, salmon usually don't go round killing anything that moves, where packs of wolves in Montana and Idaho have been documented to go through a sheep herd like a hot knife through butter" - AM
    Wolves do not "kill anything that moves". Thats just hyperbole. They don't. Really. Otherwise Lewis and Clark would have found a barren wasteland devoid of any life save for ravenous wolves keying in on any movement and pouncing. They eat a few deer and elk... and an occasional sheep... big deal. Our cars kill more ungulates on the winter highways than do wolves.
    3. "Third, since salmon haven't been absent from the ecosystem at all, everybody in their habitat knows what it takes to deal with them" - AM
    I'm not sure what this means but if you are saying there is consensus on how to recover wild salmon runs you, my friend have been sleeping since 1975. Think hullabaloo over dams, hatcheries, netting Blah Blah on and on and on ad nauseum... NO CONSENSUS and bitter, historic disagreements on how to manage salmonid habitats!
    4."No ecosystem is "enhanced" or "diminished" by the addition or subtraction of anything: the ecosystem simply IS." - AM
    Again, I have to call BS... thats like saying no body is "healthy" or "Sick"... they just are. Sorry, lots of sick people and sick eco-systems around these days. The key word is system. it is and eco-SYSTEM... it is beyond just being, it functions as a system that creates homeostasis and balance (for periods of time). (Definition: A set of things working together as parts of a mechanism or an interconnecting network). Thus it is reasonable for scientists to say with certainty that preditors are a functional part of an ecosystem... Hence - Wolves have value in keeping the system or network, functional. Wolves have been a part of PNW ecosystems for many thousands of years. Absent for less than a century... They belong - they have value and they function in a systemic way for the better of the greater system.
    5. "You know as well as I do, that the BPA spends so much money on salmon mitigation because it was required to by some idiot in a black robe" - AM
    Actually Redden was simply enforcing a law called the Northwest Power Act (1980), which sought to balance the development of hydro power with the value of salmon and steelhead. It was an attempt to reflect the values of a society which valued a rich and long heritage of fishing for and existing with salmon and steelhead. And the imposed spring spill Redden imposed (that is still giving us descent outmigration of steel) is very reasonable.
    http://www.snakeriversalmonsolutions.org/Hardball_Politics.aspx

    Last point, while you cannot eat a wolf - and you can eat a salmon... both have values to the greater ecosystems in which they belong FAR BEYOND their value as simple food or fur. (maybe this is a key part of where you and I disagree). Both are essential even if they have had to swim and claw their way back into their rightful habitats and ecoSYSTEMS.

    Tallfly guy: As for the wolves requiring an "emergency" in ID... that is simply a farcical political move to garner support for their Gangsta take on wildlife... which is - Wolves are competing for a Cash Crop (out of state elk license $$) - wolves gotta hit the road or suffer - functional ecosystem be dammed.

    That's my (tired) take...

    JW
     
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  9. dflett68

    dflett68 Active Member

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    that was a doozy to end the day on. i'm looking forward to tomorrow's responses!
     
  10. Tim Cottage

    Tim Cottage Formerly tbc1415

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    Dick if you find any wolves in camp could you please ask them to leave quietly before the rest of us arrive?

    Thanks a million
    TC
     
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  11. Kaiserman

    Kaiserman Phil 4:11-13

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    All I'm say'n, is until one of those buggers jumps into the river and hijacks my steelie, I'm okay with them being around. Well that, or if they start climbing the Space Needle, because really...who's gonna clean up THAT mess huh?
     
  12. ChrisC

    ChrisC Member

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    While I doubt a single opinion was changed through this thread, it's been highly entertaining. I take it that those who aren't happy about wolf migration regard them in the same manner as many of us regard Columbia River sea lions. The flip side is the concept of places where apex predators other than ourselves exist is one that has romantic/nostalgic appeal to many who make it a point to live and play here. I certainly wouldn't mind wolf or grizzly hunts in a hypothetical future where there are plenty of them around..
     
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  13. Jim Ficklin

    Jim Ficklin Genuine Montana Fossil

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    I think this is a "bingo!" I don't dislike any of the apex predators and it is a thrill to see them, however I also believe that some regulation is in order to prevent property loss, decimation of other healthy or otherwise resources, etc. when their numbers and/or adverse impact become an issue. That being said, if Idaho offers a reasonably-priced wolf tag this year, I do intend to regulate one . . . not because I hate them, but because I am a hunter. This has been a most entertaining read.
     
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  14. atomic dog

    atomic dog Jive Turkey

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    OH MY GOD, SOMEONE GET TO WORK ON CREATING A PACK OF WEINERWOLVES RIGHT NOW, PLEASE!
     
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  15. ribka

    ribka Active Member

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    Anthropomorphization of wild animals

    Always a good idea.

    http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-201_162-577043.html
     
  16. zen leecher aka bill w

    zen leecher aka bill w born to work, forced to fish

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    I'm suprised that no one has questioned the genetics of these new wolves. Are they wild or hatchery wolves? Only wild wolves will do as hatchery fish...er.... wolves have improper DNA.

    signed,

    charter member of WWC (Wild Wolf Coalition)
     
  17. ribka

    ribka Active Member

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    Wolves don 't indiscriminately kill animals and leave them

    A friend who is rancher just found 3 dead calves . None were eaten wolf tracks hair nearby.

    Thanks for the chuckle. Entertaining post

    http://missoulian.com/article_5ff01772-938f-11de-9aca-001cc4c03286.html




     
  18. Jason Rolfe

    Jason Rolfe Wanderer

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    Isn't it also a sort of anthropomorphization to say that wolves did something indiscriminately?

    I'm not saying that the wolves didn't kill the calves and leave them without eating them--but that doesn't necessarily mean that they didn't have a reason for doing it.

    Like any other animal, I would assume that a wolf would have to have a pretty good reason for expending the amount of energy it takes to kill something. They aren't going to just waste that energy, going around killing for the fun of it. We may not understand why it happens, but that doesn't mean we should assign some sinister motive to it.

    Jason
     
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  19. TallFlyGuy

    TallFlyGuy Adipossessed!

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    Really? I apologize if I offended or made someone mad. Perhaps I should have put a few smiley faces in there as I thought I was being funny. I was referencing a sandbox as in two kids arguing in a sandbox. It was suppose to be silly/funny/foolish to lighten up the discussion.
     
  20. TallFlyGuy

    TallFlyGuy Adipossessed!

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    That is very funny, because most "wolf lovers" reduce all the damage to wildlife and ecosystems in ID, WY, MT etc as "mother nature" doing her thing, and the emergency declared by ID is just a conspiracy theory. Again, very funny and entertaining post. Thanks for making me chuckle.
     

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