NFR Your Seattle Mariners.

Discussion in 'Fly Fishing Forum' started by Old Man, Apr 20, 2014.

  1. A sport with one referee to cover 22 players on a field larger than a football field, vs. 2 on a tiny basketball court with only 10 players, 4 on a baseball diamond with, at most, 13 players involved at any time, and who knows how many on a football field, and you're worried about the ref having undue influence on the outcome? HA! Ask any Seahawks fan about the impact of refs on their first Superbowl appearance.
    D
     
  2. Charles Sullivan

    Charles Sullivan dreaming through the come down

    Mariners look better this year than they have in quite a while.

    I tried to learn soccer. I work with lots of Sounders fans. The game just makes no sense to me. It is difficult to determine what needs to be done to gain an advantage, or when a team has an advantage. The major American sports have easily determined advantages. With soccer there seems to be more foreplay than doing it, and it is diffiicult to determine what sort of foreplay leads to scoring.

    Go Sox,
    cds
     
  3. t_law

    t_law Active Member

    Jesus, you sound like the biggest moron on this board. Whether or not you actually are is totally up for debate. I'll tell you why you don't like it, it's because you don't get it. For it being such a "simple game" it really isn't that hard to understand.

    Wrong. It's called injury time. You're right that it is up to the referee's discretion on how much time to add but it has nothing to do with waiting for neither team to have an advantage.

    It's already embraced by America and I don't think the metric system has played any kind of role in that. There are 19 MLS clubs and more are being added to the field every year.
     
  4. Andrew Shoemaker

    Andrew Shoemaker Active Member

    Kind of like intertouchdownception?
     
  5. I don't mean to pick on you, Kerry. I think you share a perspective with people all over the world.

    Working as I do in a profession where I travel a lot and host international visitors relatively often, and being a reasonably competitive athlete in my younger days, I talk about sports with a lot of folks around the world. American sports tend to be a universal bafflement to many foreigners.

    Baseball is almost always dismissed as mind-numbingly boring. Baseball was the sport I played longest and best as a student in high school and college and I try to explain how much strategy goes into managing a game and how many different responses players have to be able consider in a split second depending on the circumstances of the individual moment, but all they see are a bunch of guys standing around and someone with a bat who 8 times out of 10 can't get a hit, and then after a few minutes of play, the game stops while everyone changes sides and warms up again, as if they are just getting started. Bo-o-o-o-ring.

    Then there's American football, where, to the outside observer, a bunch of guys who are so padded and trussed that no one can tell who is who without names on their backs run into each other for a few seconds, and then stop and stand around while they try to figure out what to do next. Bo-o-o-o-o-ring.

    Now, I'm not saying I'm bored by either baseball or football; I've played both and like to watch both, but to me soccer is more continuously compelling than either of them. Soccer has a universal appeal to cultures around the world, in part because play is continuous, skills are constantly being exhibited, or mistakes made, and the outcome can turn on the magic of a play that can happen at almost any time. Basketball is the one American sport that has a much wider appeal in foreign countries, because of the similarity in the fitness level required and the more continuous play.

    I think the only person who is simple minded is the one who condemns a sport and its fans as simple minded, instead of acknowledging that he/she doesn't understand the game well enough to share that enthusiasm. Unfortunately, so many of our sportswriters/sportscasters in this country were raised on traditional American sports that they share the same lack of understanding of soccer (or football as most of the rest of the world calls it), and are unable to adequately relate to it in they way they do football or baseball. It is a credit to MLS and to some of the larger sports networks, that they have brought in journalists and announcers from abroad who do understand the game.

    Sigi Schmid is pretty ghastly. Obviously, this isn't limited to soccer, but the contrast to the level of fitness of soccer players is stark. On the other hand, coaches are valued for their ability to produce winning teams and Schmid has won more MLS soccer matches than anyone else, and was one of the winningest college soccer coaches in US history at UCLA before moving to the pros. He knows how to get the best out of his players and they have a great deal of respect for him.

    D
     
  6. T_law, I understand injury time; it is simply an assessment of how much lost play occurred during the half and a roughly equivalent amount of time is added to account for it. But, injury time doesn't wind down like a basketball or football clock, either. Having played soccer for decades and refereed some, I also understand that the only person in the game who has can blow the whistle is the referee. The unwritten rule is that the whistle will never be blown while one team is building an attack or threatening to score. Watch closely at the end of a half or game and you will see that the whistle always blows when the neither team has an immediate advantage. Sometimes when injury time is up and one side is attacking relentlessly, a referee will permit play to continue, since the injury time was only a rough estimate to begin with. In that situation "no immediate advantage" may be nothing more than a defender clearing a ball away. You will never hear a whistle blown during a cross through the box, or in the scrum following a corner kick, or after a foul when a free kick is being set up by an attacking team.

    D
     
  7. Salmo_g

    Salmo_g Active Member

    As a kid baseball was the sport I loved and played. I so loved playing it, but never learned to appreciate watching it, kinda' like watching paint dry for the amount of action that occurs. But as a player it was tense excitement every pitch of the game. As a spectator I find it rather disturbing that the pitcher spends more time playing with his genitals than he does throwing the baseball. I think baseball is a much better participant sport than a spectator one. Still, I hope the Mariners can shake the Seattle curse of looking like a good farm team for the real ML teams.

    Two daughters played soccer, so I attended lots of soccer games from their grade school through high school years. And I still don't totally understand "off sides." But there's no doubting the fitness of a soccer team. Most football and all baseball players would die of cardiac arrest before half time on the soccer pitch. Basketball players would probably survive.

    Sg
     
  8. Porter

    Porter Active Member

    Good One!!!!!
     
  9. t_law

    t_law Active Member

    It does wind down. Once 90min has been played a sideline referee will hold up a time clock indicating how much injury time has been added. The referee will then monitor his watch. Now it may run over 10,20,30 seconds but at that point the referee is taking life into his own hands. It has nothing to do with letting play go on because of an advantage, period. I've played in enough games where the final whistle has been blown when my team was knocking on the door and vice versa.
     
  10. Porter

    Porter Active Member

    Yeah my argument or point has definite holes, as duely noted above. But in my defense, some of the soccer games I have watched and as a tight game nears the end.....well the best comparison I would say is like watching a football team behind 21-17 with a minute left and 80 yards to go and the team losing is running FB dives and HUDDLING!!!! .......Nah, I'm not buying this soccer game thing (for me), but I will admit I think they are some of the best condition/fit athletes in the world.

    Civilized game.....Hmm, I have not read about riots and stampedes leading to multiple deaths after a football or baseball game but with soccer ? :eek: :p
     
  11. bennysbuddy

    bennysbuddy the sultan of swing

    It appears that the corporate capitalist control the soccer game and they have downsized the number of refs to increase profits. Next they will have no refs and disputes will be settled hockey style with a short round of fisticuffs.
     
  12. Porter

    Porter Active Member

    and sometimes they are not even close because they are strategizing their next play while passing the ball back and forth...TIME! Game over!
     
  13. bennysbuddy

    bennysbuddy the sultan of swing

    That's because their fans are pussies
     
  14. KerryS

    KerryS Ignored Member


    Ok ???????, I didn't call anyone any names. This was a thread about baseball and the Mariners specifically. Somebody comes on here badmouthing the Mariners and baseball and promoting soccer. I don't like soccer so I fired back with that. You don't like my opinions, fine leave the name calling out of it. To me soccer is a boring, simple sport. I played the damn game and I understand it completely. I don't like soccer. Deal with it.
     
  15. t_law

    t_law Active Member

    I guess we're even.
     
  16. Porter

    Porter Active Member

    I enjoy watching curling more than soccer! I'm done with that.

    I'm not sure what the M's have but I think in Seager,Smoak, Miller, and Zunino they have a nice little nucleus of good, not great, ballplayers. These are guys that can develope and probably bat between 240-280 each year. Couple them with Cano and another big bat I think they could be more than decent. Pitching is solid. They have most of the ingredients. One more reputable big bat? Another solid no. 3 pitcher ? Maybe September will mean more than just the beginning of the Seahawk season!
     
  17. Charles Sullivan

    Charles Sullivan dreaming through the come down

    The masses are, in fact, simple minded. I can't see that as a debatable point. All sports, soccer included are for the simple minded masses.

    I don't care for soccer. I've truly tried to learn it. I can't get my mind around what anyone is doing or why they are doing what they are. I simple can't figure out what the advantages are.

    Generally, Americans don't understand soccer. For all it's vociferous agressive advocates in ths country, it still hasn't stuck like the big 3 sports. I don't think it ever will. Seattle has fans, but I wonder if that's because the other franchises have been so bad, so long (2014 Seachickens excluded).

    I have learned not to speak poorly of soccer around it's proponents. There is a portion of them who get angry about anyone not loving it. Evangelical soccer fans are possibly the worst in the world.

    Go Sox,
    cds
     
  18. Gary Knowels

    Gary Knowels Active Member

    The Mariner's don't need a big bat, they were 2nd in MLB in home runs last year. What they need is a guy or two that can hit close to .300. Too many guys in the lineup hitting .240. They were 28th in team batting average. Get a couple guys that get on base and the run production will jump. I think the pitching will be ok, Iwakuma looked GREAT, Felix will be Felix, Roenis Elias has been great and I think he will be a capable #4-5 starter. Get Walker and Paxton back in the near future and your rotation is solid. Bullpen will be fine once they aren't stretched so thin because of lesser starting pitching.

    My prediction for the season was .500 +/- 5 games and I'm sticking to it. Hoping it is the 83-87 win range but who knows.
     
  19. Gary Knowels

    Gary Knowels Active Member

    On the soccer debate, I work with a die hard soccer fan and his take is this: soccer in the US won't truly catch on at the professional level until the level of competition reaches a level comparable to the top European leagues. And that likely won't happen as long as our development system follows the standard youth to high school to college pathway. Soccer nuts in the US watch European soccer plus a local MLS team sometimes. Its not like NFL fans that watch every game every week. The soccer fans often do that with EPL and La Liga.

    I like watching the game of soccer, but only on its highest level. I'll watch EPL games with friends and love the world cup because the level of play is high and nationalism provides for a great atmosphere. Also, loser goes home format after group play is exciting!
     
  20. t_law

    t_law Active Member

    It's already caught on, the professional league is almost 20yrs old and expanding every year. In the not too distant future it will be the #2 sport in America (I can't see it overtaking the NFL in popularity). The way we bring up the youth in this country is only part of the problem and that is quickly being addressed by the professional clubs having their own youth academies. The real problem facing the league is the salary cap. The young talented players from around the world go to Europe because that's where the money is. Once the MLS fixes that it will start to attract better players and the level of play will rise.