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Dragging Chains?

4K views 45 replies 32 participants last post by  Irafly 
#1 ·
Went fishing on the Yakima River yesterday with a group of folks. Fishing was slow but I did manage to pick up a few respectable trout on nymphs.

I did get to see a new river craft in action though and it was intriguing. There is a new genera coming about, the one man pontoon boat. An oversized kickboat configured for fishing while standing, no longer a kickboat but not a two man operation either. Of course I’d seen them in catalogs but this was the first time I saw one in action. I was very impressed, especially with the way he had it rigged. So impressed and intrigued that it wasn’t until this morning that I thought some of it through.

It was rigged with a drag anchor of 7’ of chain; I hefted it and would guess about 5-7 lbs…very light per se. Just set your course and drop out the chain and stand and fish as the chain slows you down and keeps the boat oriented downstream and away from the bank. You can fish this way for a mile or more with out much adjustment (depending on the river channel of course). For the Yakima an ideal fishing arrangement to be sure.

Now I’ve never been a fan of dragging chains down rivers but this set up was so light that I figured the damage would be negligible certainly no more than my wading across the river. But this morning I started thinking about it again. I had a conversation with this very nice person after our float about the system and kickboats in general. He was predicting that this system was going to stand the industry on its ear (he was also referring to technical advances in the kickboat/pontoon designs of his craft). I also remarked in our conversation how around 12 years ago when I was one of the VERY few kickboaters on the Yakima I predicted the river would be full with them in no time. Well now the Yak does support a large fleet of kickboats and the river is very well suited for them.

This morning I started putting some of the conversation together and I began to wonder where we might be headed. A couple folks dragging light chains behind them down large western rivers is no big deal but 10 or more a day becomes a different story. This leads me to believe that the whole concept of dragging chains or anchors needs to be brought up in public discussion (again) and people need to think this choice through.

Now there’s obviously no way to wade or anchor in a river without disturbing the bottom but dragging your anchor ratchets it up to a whole other level. Like littering one person doing it is no big deal but when many people do it you now have a real impact on the environment. I think he was correct in his prediction that this type of fishing will become very popular, so what will be the reaction? Do we add to the signage at put ins a reminder that this type of behavior hurts the resource? Do we say something to anyone we see dragging their anchor while we are fishing? Do we lobby the Fish and Wildlife agencies to set up regulations against it? As the practice grows I think we will see all of these consequences.

What do you think?

Have fun
Paul
 
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#3 ·
Very interesting for sure!!

Just for kicks: should we ban any sort of "drink container" also? I see a whole lot of aluminum beer and soda cans on the river bottoms no matter where I go? Does this damage the river more than dragging chains?? Should people be cited for carrying disposable drink containers on their vessels??? Just a thought??

~Patrick ><>
 
#4 ·
For anyone who had seen the San Juan river in the 80's, the bottom was scowered due to people doing the "San Juan Shuffle."

Dragging the bottom leaves a long lasting effect, especially in low water situations when the bugs and vegetative roots are at their most vulnerable state. I hope for the sake of the Yak and other rivers that this practice doesn't catch on. :(
 
#5 ·
>Should people be cited for carrying
>disposable drink containers on their vessels??? Just a
>thought??
>
>
>~Patrick ><>

No, just for tossing them over the side...oh wait that's already the case (or do you think we should repeal litter laws?). Just a thought you say; well not much of one. Instead of deflecting the issue why don't you try addressing it? If you think this is a lame concern then tell us how dragging chains doesn't matter (which may be true), if you can't do that than maybe you ought to try a couple new thoughts out.

Have fun
Paul
 
#6 ·
People sure are cranky around here today. Between Kerry threatening anyone who badmouths his friend's Hummer and Paul's lecture on social and environmental responsibility, this might be a good day to avoid this forum until everyone's caffein buzz wears off.
 
#8 ·
Hey Paul...not a single word I wrote was meant in any way shape or form to be derogitory or harmful to anyone involved. I for one do not drag anchor, nor for that matter, float rivers that much. I was not deflecting the issue, rather raising a question about the detriment we as society have on the rivers and their bottoms. You need to back off, relax a little, and refine your approach to the board.

~Patrick ><>
 
#9 ·
if you want to fish on the move have someone row as you fish i dont think that anchor draging or chain draging should happen not only is it enviormentaly not a good thing it sounds as if theres some chuming going on. its like fishing the flats seeing prop wash lines all over the place it may not scar forever but its nice to not see mans mark while i fish. makes me think of pack it in pack it out keep mans mark out of it.
 
#10 ·
I think Paul raises an interesting point and my guess is dragging a chain is not the same as wading. You can drag a chain anywhere in the river-you cannot wade anywhere in the river. Think of the Deschutes where no fishing is allowed from a boat-that rule provides the fish (and their habitat) a sanctuary from waders. No matter how agressively you wade the Deschutes, the middle of the river is undisturbed.

For those readers unfamilar with the "San Juan Shuffle" and its detrimental effects, think of wading fishers, shuffling their wading boots through the streambed, intending to disrupt the vegetation as much as possible to kick out trout food, (think chumming) then fish in the chum. Not good for fish and not good for habitat.

Paul's analogy to littering seems apt. One chain, drug through the river bed would not seem a problem, but one chain, multiplied by the number of pontoon boats running the Yakima would seem a significant problem.
 
#11 ·
Paul-
Amongst many of our younger anglers (X & Y Generation) and amongst some of their elders, we are witenessing a new mentality about flyfishing and a new attitude towards the fish develop.

Many of those that are on the waters these days consist of the aforementioned generations and maintain goals of catching as many fish as possible, boosting their ego etc. etc. Given that they overlook their impact on the fish, fisheries, enviroment etc. to accomplish their goals, the sport, the fish and the enviroment are suffering.

The attitdues and goals that many hold are better suited to sitting in a boat on Lake Ki on opening day fishing Power Bait and hootin' and hollerin' as one 8" planter is strung up after another.

Although, in my travels, I have noticed that serious balls to the walls steelhead/salmon fishermen with bait/hardware tend to hold better ethics and is a more enlightened angler then so many I see casting flies on the water these days.
 
#12 ·
I am not in favor of purposfully dragging an anchor. We all impact the resource by fishing and wading in rivers, but care should be made to minimize this. Felt soles cause much less damage than dragging a chain. Particularly when we remember that wading is limited (by river hydraulics) to certain sections of the river. An anchor can be drug through deep and fast areas, that are naturally protected from damage by waders. These 'untouched' areas are a very important part of the river eco-system.
I don't no if laws need to be passed just yet? We should all do our best to avoid causing too much of an impact and encourage others to do the same.
Anil
 
#13 ·
Patrick,

Sorry I miss read your post. Your analogy seemed like the common deflection I see in the discussion of many issues these days. Consider this apology backing off, I'm pretty much always relaxed and I suspect my wife is correct that I'm rather a lost cause for much refinement at this stage in life.

Have fun
Paul
:dunno
 
#14 ·
Of course "wading across the rivers" does damage to the bottom, and to the legion of creatures that live there. In some cases this does a great deal of damage. Especially to fish redds,(nests), full of eggs, or fry, and terribly vulnerable.

I don't like the idea of dragging a chain along the bottom of rivers any more than I approve of the bottom draggers in the Oceans, Bays and Sounds- and for the same reasons. If this craft is as good as you say it is, I hope they will come up with a better method of use than dragging something along the bottom.
 
#15 ·
Well, well. I'll rise to the bait.

Now it's dragging chains.

A time honored technique, developed in the Adirondacks and Maine north woods to slow guideboads relative to the current, and to slow crewboats behind log rafts. You can vary your speed quite well from stop to current speed simply by paying out or pulling in chain. Chain dragging I think has been illegal in New England for some years.

The benefits to the operator of stirring up the bottom while moving slower than the current are many and varied, but certainly on the Yak I'd tie on a hares ear and fish the sediment cloud just downstream. Chumming. Very sporting.

The benefits of this method for the rest of us are that the chain tends to hang every once in a while, and if the occupants aren't quick enough, they are tossed into the stream, their boats can get sunk, and their gear liberally distributed around. I look foward to that happening on the Yak to some dope standing up on a 10 foot raft. I need the gear.

How about you chain afficionados just open up a can of shoepeg corn and match the hatch downstream instead, and leave the streambottom alone?

Thats what I think.
 
#16 ·
excellent discusion. I for one feel if your on a drift boat, drift don't anchor. If your on a pontoon boat pull up at the gravel bars don't anchor in the river and attempt to fish. I believe you hit it on the nose when you said if one does it everyone will want to do it and that's bad. But what do I know I'm a wader anyway.
 
#17 ·
This may be an unpopular post, but has anybody thought about regulating the # of boats drifting at one time? I remember a while back there was a post about the effects of overfishing on these trout in the Yakima, it may be time to limit pressure. The only caveat I would add is that the permits should be made equally accessible by lottery or something...this is just a thought...what do YOU think?
-Thomas:dunno
 
#18 ·
Seems like there should be some kind of neutrally bouyant anchor that you could set that would slow the boat without dragging on the bottom. For instance, in days of sailing ships they would sometimes lower a sail into the water, known as a "sea anchor" to either slow or propel a boat in windless conditions as required. Perhaps there is a market out there for some ecologically-minded garage tinkerer to build such an anchor. Maybe you could make it out of salvaged aluminum cans, and kill two birds with one stone. Or is that two fish with one fly? Another idea: just drag your beer cooler behind you as you float, it will slow you down and keep the beer cool. You could adjust the drag by simply adding or removing beer.
 
#21 ·
Do you mean like the Smith or Wind River (not sure which) in Montana? I believe one of them is limited to floats by permit only. I think the middle fork of the Salmon is the same. I know the Colorado has limited access at some points.
 
#23 ·
During a lifetime of fishing, I've made my way to many famous streams that I'd been reading about for years, and frequently, I was struck by how small that stream was, and how limited was the length of the prime areas. Take Silver Creek in southern Idaho as an example: we've all read about it, seen pictures of it, and made a mental promise to fish it some day. But the accessable, famous parts of Silver Creek are just a few miles long, and can be waded across at most points. Many streams that are considered world-class, premium destinations are no wider than the street in front of your house!
The difference between a Blue Ribbon stream that people drive to from three states away, and some local waterway that nobody bothers to fish, is the biological health of the streambed. The better streams are amazing food farms for the biota that sustain trout or other game fish; complex, fragile, and precious to us. Why, in the 21st Century, is protecting stream bottoms even an issue? We're lucky that we're not required to wade with pillows strapped to our feet. :eek And anchoring systems that protect the stream bottom aren't sort of a nice idea - they're long-term necessities.
 
#24 ·
Do we know for sure that dragging chains along river bottoms isn't actually good for the river? :eek: Wait! Wait! Don't start yelling at me just yet. I'm on your side and I think it's likely bad for the river bottom. Very, Very bad.

BUT, I'm just sayin', every spring I go out in my yard and hack the hell out of my shrubberies. They look aweful and I'm sure they'll die, until - lo and behold - they come back thicker, healthier, and more beautiful than ever. Maybe it'd be like pruning the river bottom.:dunno In the long run, forest fires usually end up being good for forests. Volcanic eruptions are apparently good to make healthy lakes (St. Helens). I know, and you're right -- those are natural disasters and chain dragging is very unnatural. Point taken.

It reminds me of a recent conversation with steelhead guru, Dennis Dickson. Someone was whining about the jet boats that roar up and down our local steelhead rivers. Dennis suprised everyone by saying that after years of thinking that those boats "put the fish down" he finally came to the conclusion that they actually turn the fish on (particularly in winter) and that quite often, you'll hook into a steelhead within minutes of one passing over your hole. He has concluded that we only want to think the jets bother the fish. The truth is, they bother us. There's a lesson for us in there somewhere.

As for dragging chains, save your breath. I know I'm wrong about everything I've just finished rambling about. But when its 2:35 and work is slow, sometimes it helps to spit into the wind. :smokin
 
#25 ·
OK,..I usually try and not to get too political about anything fishing or hunting related on the web; but this is one of two things that really gets my goat and has for years!!
Its been done here on the Skagit for years by sledders during March and April when they are not allowed to fish under power,..and it drives me nuts!! To the point on occasion where I'll pull a sled over and try and educate them a little on the damage their chains have on the redds and insect life in the river. Have even gone to the extent of trying to get WDFW to ban the dragging of chains or allow sledders to fish under power on the Skagit system through April. Doesn't matter the weight of the chain, the substrate is turned over disrupting the rivers natural cycle.
Yes, years ago many of our rivers including the Skagit and Sky were dredged and chanelized by log booms dragging chains, and the rivers suffered. Going to even be interesting to see what happens to the rivers after this falls scouring from the floods. Will the fry and smolt suffer this Spring?,..probably but, Mother nature's been taking care of herself for years and doesn't need us to disrupt the cycle anymore than we already have. Wasnt 15 years ago Caddis and Stone Fly larvae were actually hard to find on the lower stretches of these two rivers; natural food of fry, smolt, Trout and Dollie Varden. These two rivers in particular had made a come back beofore the fall floods, but look at them now, not nearly as much insect life as last Summer. Dollie population on the Skagit system has exploded the past 5-10 years and last year was a banner year on fishing for them. So far though since the floods the whole Dollie fishing has seemed to taper off quite a bit this season on the main river. Where to find them now,..in the places the floods did the leat amount of scouring, the healthiest sections of river.

Dragging chains, anchors or anything that disrupts the river bottom is a bad idea period!! On any river!!
 
#26 ·
Paul,

Dragging chains on the river is a bad practice both for the fish and the bugs. No bugs less fish, less fish crummy fishing, terrible circle eh? The pontoon boat phenom as of late has lots of impacts, both to the fish and river. Personal float boats work great in the spring and fall when water is low and the flows are way down. They should be thought of more as transportation than a fishing vessel. Unfortunately, with the price of boats coming down and more and more people buying them, it puts a lot more people on the river. One of the big issues is this, pontoon boats create multiple vessles on the water, when it used to be 2 or 3 people in a drift boat now becomes 3 separate crafts taking more space. Also these boats dont hold a good line and the people rowing them spend lots of time with rods in their mouth rowing in and around wade fisherman and drift boats. As a consistent patron of the river my self and friends remind other anglers that intentionally dragging anchor is frowned upon because of the impacts to the river bottom. Most of the people I see anchor dragging are usually spin fisherman who do not frequent the river and almost allways huff the anchor up. My intent here is not to polarize any group of people but rather convey a point of view of a person who has spent a lot of time on that water and wants to see it remain a healthy fishery si that my kids can fish trout there.
 
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