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Dragging Chains?

4K views 45 replies 32 participants last post by  Irafly 
#1 ·
Went fishing on the Yakima River yesterday with a group of folks. Fishing was slow but I did manage to pick up a few respectable trout on nymphs.

I did get to see a new river craft in action though and it was intriguing. There is a new genera coming about, the one man pontoon boat. An oversized kickboat configured for fishing while standing, no longer a kickboat but not a two man operation either. Of course I’d seen them in catalogs but this was the first time I saw one in action. I was very impressed, especially with the way he had it rigged. So impressed and intrigued that it wasn’t until this morning that I thought some of it through.

It was rigged with a drag anchor of 7’ of chain; I hefted it and would guess about 5-7 lbs…very light per se. Just set your course and drop out the chain and stand and fish as the chain slows you down and keeps the boat oriented downstream and away from the bank. You can fish this way for a mile or more with out much adjustment (depending on the river channel of course). For the Yakima an ideal fishing arrangement to be sure.

Now I’ve never been a fan of dragging chains down rivers but this set up was so light that I figured the damage would be negligible certainly no more than my wading across the river. But this morning I started thinking about it again. I had a conversation with this very nice person after our float about the system and kickboats in general. He was predicting that this system was going to stand the industry on its ear (he was also referring to technical advances in the kickboat/pontoon designs of his craft). I also remarked in our conversation how around 12 years ago when I was one of the VERY few kickboaters on the Yakima I predicted the river would be full with them in no time. Well now the Yak does support a large fleet of kickboats and the river is very well suited for them.

This morning I started putting some of the conversation together and I began to wonder where we might be headed. A couple folks dragging light chains behind them down large western rivers is no big deal but 10 or more a day becomes a different story. This leads me to believe that the whole concept of dragging chains or anchors needs to be brought up in public discussion (again) and people need to think this choice through.

Now there’s obviously no way to wade or anchor in a river without disturbing the bottom but dragging your anchor ratchets it up to a whole other level. Like littering one person doing it is no big deal but when many people do it you now have a real impact on the environment. I think he was correct in his prediction that this type of fishing will become very popular, so what will be the reaction? Do we add to the signage at put ins a reminder that this type of behavior hurts the resource? Do we say something to anyone we see dragging their anchor while we are fishing? Do we lobby the Fish and Wildlife agencies to set up regulations against it? As the practice grows I think we will see all of these consequences.

What do you think?

Have fun
Paul
 
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#27 ·
I remember reading about this type of thing in lakes. John Goddarn wrote about it. He also wrote about another slowing device. It was connected to a rope. It was like a parachute. I can not remember the name. This would be much better then dragging a chain. Plus if it were weighted I think that it may work in the rivers as well. Just a thought.
 
#28 ·
It's a nice thought, but I don't think that the sea anchor idea would work on moving water, as Jim(Old Man) mentioned earlier. If you are "floating" down a river, you are typically moving at pretty much the same speed as the current. It seems to me that the sea anchor would float down the river at the same speed as the current and your craft.... so it wouldn't slow you down at all. It would be like throwing out a sea anchor in a lake or in the ocean when you weren't already being propelled forward by a motor or the wind. Both your craft and the sea anchor would just sit there doing pretty much nothing. I think that the sea anchor would only work if you were being pushed by the wind(as with a sailboat) or by some type of motor at a speed that is faster than that of the current. In a situation like that, it would slow you down closer to the speed of the current. I could be wrong on all of this, but it is an interesting question to think about...... reminds me of some of those applied math quesions back in highschool and college. :hmmm
 
#30 ·
Think about that man. Your in a river, with a current. You have a parachute out. How is that going to stop you? The point of the chain is to drag it on the bottom of the river. The friction between the chain and river bottoms is whats slowing you down. NOT the weight/resistance of the chain in the water.

F=MA folks F=MA

Science lesson over,

Trouti
 
#31 ·
Oars work great for slowing down a boat. Thats why so many people use them. Don't hold me to this, but I'm pretty sure drift and pontoon boats have the seat facing downriver, so puliing oars would slow the boat by moving upriver (of course you don't want to go down the river backwards like say a crew boat or similar, unless its almost dark out). I'm pretty sure a parachute anchor would make you go faster down river, but i'm no scientist. :)

--------
Be the ball Danny
http://www.carlspackler.com/sounds/012.wav
 
#33 ·
Common sense here...

I guess that rototiller analogy put things pretty much to rest. Nice logic, Trouti!

Seems like everybody is in favor of protecting the river bottoms. Do we need some car bumber stickers? For example:

SAVE OUR BOTTOMS

KEEP OUT OF OUR BOTTOMS

KEEP OFF OUR BOTTOMS

DON'T DRAG OUR BOTTOMS

DON'T STIR UP OUR BOTTOMS

DON'T BUMP ALONG ON OUR BOTTOMS

BOB, the I can think of more but I think I've worn the idea out. :smokin :rofl :rofl
 
#34 ·
Ok here's my final conclusion (for now and I do vow to do some research) on this subject along with an attempt to clear a couple things up that I think were somewhat misconstrued.

- NO ONE has cited any actual studies of the "damage" this technique can do to the river bed. We all cite anecdotal perceptions and gut feelings about it but really don't have solid evidence of the long term effects. I'm left to wonder whether it would be like a healthy lawn cutting or tree pruning or a debilitating scouring.

- I said at the end of my original post "As the practice grows I think we will see all of these consequences." I still do THINK that will happen I don't and never did know whether it should. My jury is still out.

- I was never concerned with the intermittent use of this technique either by a particular boater or on a river system as a whole. The whole context of my discussion was in light of this technique catching on in similar numbers to the growth of kickboating in general over the past decade.

- The particular system I have been referring to is slightly different than the historical equivalent. The boat is very light and the drag is more for orientation than slowing the boat very much, of course by its very nature it slows the boat but the real "beauty" of it is that it allows a single boater to stand and fish without anyone manning the oars to keep the boat oriented correctly and off the bank. Therefore the chain rig is VERY light, 7 ft of chain…maybe 5 pounds. I understand it to have been tested very extensively and with the small amount of chain, hang-ups are very rare.

- The previous point is what lead to my questions about its impact. It works VERY WELL and seems ideal for summertime fishing on the Yakima which rivals the S. Platte @ Deckers for a quality fly fishing river close into a large metro area. Combine a new system that works very well with the kind of boating pressure the Yakima sees and I felt we might be looking at a whole new set of parameters for dragging chain on a river bottom. Obviously no one really knows what the impact of this will be but my guess is that we will be confronted with figuring it out in the coming years.

Personally I'm not comfortable doing it. My boat is perhaps too small and not configured for standing and I've never liked the "feeling" of dragging chains behind any boat I'm in; it just feels rough and obtrusive and not in the least stealthy (this is all emotional not necessarily rational). So I'm probably not going to do it but I sure don't see myself criticizing others for it until I have a better grasp on the actual impact to the fishery.

FWIW I posted this topic on three sites and the threads were fairly different on each site.
westfly http://www.westfly.com/cgi-bin/forum/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=5&t=001392#000016

VFS http://outdoorsbest.zeroforum.com/zerothread?id=169342
Have fun
Paul
 
#35 ·
I haven't read this whole post, but from what I've read so far, I haven't seen this potential 'benefit' come up yet...

On many high pressured rivers where trout populations are flourishing, it is not uncommon for the fish to be attracted to the fisherman who is wading in the river and stirring up sediment (and food). Then they feed just down stream of the fisherman, but generally avoid his best efforts to catch these 'learned' fish.

Wouldn't a boat dragging anything down the river provide a virtual buffet table for any fish in the area?

I can just imagine the scene 5 years from now (assuming this becomes more popular):
Bank fisherman standing still waiting for the 'hatch'.
Fish holding tight lipped until the coming 'hatch'.
Then, it happens, another bottom dragger goes by and the feeding and fishing begin. The bankies do their best to cast directly behind the boat, and end up bumping into each other and crossing lines trying to get the perfect cast and drift. Fly patterns will be 'mangled cadis larvae' and 'crippled sculpin' imitations. A new type of combat fishing will be born. The stealthy fisherman will have their favorite ambush points for avoiding the crowds, but jumping in and casting as the boater futilely tries once again to have a quiet stretch of water to himself.

Personally I don't like the idea. I can just imagine boaters of all kinds catching on to this idea and churning up the Skykomish river bottom during the peak of salmon spawning season. Then again, the dollies probably wouldn't mind...
 
#36 ·
Guys it aint called dragging it's called DREDGING!!!!!!!!

Generally used to improve depth so large ships can navigate rivers!!!!


If you don't think this chain crap multiplied 1000x's is going to damage the river bottum take a look a the piles of sedement DREDGED out of Commencement Bay!!!


Say no the DREDGING.... Write the WDFW and let them know you are opposed to the use of any dragging or slow device hanging from a watercraft other than an oar!!:reallymad :reallymad
 
#37 ·
Are electric motors allowed on the yak? In many rivers folks use electric motors to slow them down when needed. Yes, they require one or more heavy batteries and are more expensive and cumbersom than a chain, but seems like a good compromise.

Personally I prefer to use boats as transportation and fish from the bank. Seems much safer and more relaxing to me in many ways. But then again for kids, guides, older or less mobile folks, I don't doubt fishing from a boat is more practicle. Plug (and bait\diver) folks would have serious issues with that as well. But the boat as transportation only rule on some rivers at certain times seems like a good idea.
 
#38 ·
Just a few thoughts on the matter.

Fact: When chains are dragged along the bottom, insects will be dislodged.

Fact: The more boats that are dragging, the more insects that will be dislodged.

Fact: When the Yakima is drawn down during the summer, the insects migrate out into what is left of the river channel thereby concentrating the bug population.

Fact: Since the channel width is reduced in the summer, those choosing to drift and drag anchors will now be dragging over the majority of the bug population left in the river and potentially dislodging a good chunk of them.

Thought: After a while won't a good chunk of the bug population have been dislodged? This would be good for trout in the short term as they could gorge themselves and fatten up BUT what happens later in the season when there isn't a whole lot of food left in the river because we've chummed it all up over the spring, summer and fall?
What do the trout do for a food source? Will overall trout survival be affected? While you are correct in that I don't have data to back any of this up you can bet I won't be dragging any anchors down the Yak or any other river until someone can prove to me that there won't be an effect on trout survival.
 
#39 ·
FYI - I was being 'tongue in cheek' with my comment about 'chumming'. But to address your question about 'what will the trout eat'? I propose that the anchor draggers will have to start carrying buckets of trout pellets and toss out handfuls as they float down the river. OK, seriously now - there is no way dragging bottom should be allowed.

Hey Bob - if you put it that way, I bet even GW would support your proposal to protecting this nation's bottoms...:dunno

Swinger:
"Many of those that are on the waters these days consist of the aforementioned generations and maintain goals of catching as many fish as possible, boosting their ego etc. etc. Given that they overlook their impact on the fish, fisheries, environment etc. to accomplish their goals, the sport, the fish and the environment are suffering."
I think what you are seeing is a result of more anglers - not worse anglers. The more that get out there, the more jerks you'll find. But I bet you more anglers today are aware and active regarding environmental issues. Just look at the raping of the land that went on during my father's generation and those before him. We are finally starting to see (albeit too late in most cases) some improvement thanks to the 'new generation'. But let's not start pointing fingers. In the end, it is all about coming together, educating those who need it, and fighting for what we have left.:beer2
 
#40 ·
Years ago, Field and Stream, Outdoor Life, somebody, wrote about the need to NOT WADE IN RIVERS and I think this was backed up with laws (Wyoming?). Damage was docuemented and my own greedy little being thought the notion was terrible, but it did make sense.
I've decided no chains.
Bob, the No Chains Guy At Heart.:)
 
#41 ·
"BUT, I'm just sayin', every spring I go out in my yard and hack the hell out of my shrubberies. They look aweful and I'm sure they'll die, until - lo and behold - they come back thicker, healthier, and more beautiful than ever. Maybe it'd be like pruning the river bottom."

Point well taken...
But i'll take this further. Try pruning your shrubberies once a day, every day, and see what happens.
Get what i'm saying?
And that's just one person doing the pruning.
Now think of 20 of your buddies (rough guess of boats in a day) coming over every day to help out with your pruning?:eek :eek :eek :eek


:-( Where did my rose bushes go???
 
#42 ·
>Try pruning your shrubberies once a day, every day, and >see what happens.
>Get what i'm saying?
>And that's just one person doing the pruning.
>Now think of 20 of your buddies (rough guess of boats
>in a day) coming over every day to help out with your
>pruning?
>
>:-( Where did my rose bushes go???

Ahhh, if ONLY I could get 20 of my buddies (or 2 for that matter) to come over every day to help out with my pruning.

Your interpretation of my analogy assumes that each pruner prunes the whole bush. In that case, you're right, I'd have a problem with my roses. But chain draggers (oooh, I hate those guys) only prune a relatively tiny section of the river, each. So it would be more like 20 of my buddies coming over, and each one snipping 1 branch. At that rate I'd need a lot of buddies just to do a decent job.

Try another analogy on for size -- Plowing fallow ground. Dirt that hasn't been churned in a while is terribly unfertile and utterly unsuited for growing anything but weeds. But drag a chain over it, er, I mean chop into with a hoe and churn it all up and it becomes great for growing stuff. Maybe our riverbottoms could use a good churning every now & then. Isn't that what Ma Nature decided to do to the Skagit last Fall?

I propose we designate a 1 mile section of the Yakima as "Drag Only" water. No boats can pass through without dragging a chain (or 6-pack or something) and waders must stomp to excess. We'll evaluate the ecosystem after 5 years and then put this debate to bed (I know there isn't really a debate, but at least I'm trying).

DISCLAIMER: Take my arguments with a grain of salt because I have no convictions here.
 
#45 ·
Kick boats,ie. Pontoons boats,float tubes. Anything that you can keep your butt out of the water or just about out and that you propell with a set of fins(flippers). Just do a search on Google and see what you can come up with. Lots of different kinds of water craft.

Jim

Edit: And welcome to the site. One of the best around if not the best in Washington State. A good place to pick up info on lakes and flowing rivers.

Jim Again
 
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