Article Hatchery-Raised "Natural" Spawners

Discussion in 'Fly Fishing Forum' started by freestoneangler, Nov 24, 2012.

  1. stilly stalker

    stilly stalker Tuna sniffer

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    Yes, I agree with this statement. High residualizaton rates of hatchery smolts can easily be seen in several areas, I'll use the NF Nooksack as an example, where these residents are outcompeting and displacing native salmonids.
     
  2. stilly stalker

    stilly stalker Tuna sniffer

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    I'm a huge proponent of a zero harvest system on severely depressed runs (read ALL steelhead runs) until escapements are raised to over 50% acceptable escapement. There's no f-ing reason to be commercially harvesting these fish beyond the short term dollar, and if the tribes had better consultation, theyd manage their fisheries for the angling crowd that would bring a LOT more $$$$ into their communities.
     
  3. stilly stalker

    stilly stalker Tuna sniffer

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    Harvesting 1000 steelhead at $10/fish doesn't bring shit into a tribal community compared to the potential recreational $$s that a thriving anadromous river would bring
     
  4. Chris Bellows

    Chris Bellows Your Preferred WFF Poster

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    and the only tribe that i am aware of that has a recreational industry continues to be one of the worst when it comes to netting wild steelhead and salmon on the coast.

    the problem is that for most of the tribes, they have no land along sportfishing reaches and are located away from where people would want to stay or eat. tough for them to really get any kind of share of the pie.
     
  5. Wilken

    Wilken Member

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    Let me see if I understand the logic in this effort.

    Native fish are down to critically low numbers in this CA stream.
    Native fish are locally adapted to their natal stream environment.
    Hatchery fish are not locally adapted to the natal stream because fish that would not have survived in the stream are allowed to survive and eventually return to the hatchery, or spawn in the wild, because of hatchery practices (massively increased incubation and rearing survival compared to wild fish). This dilution of local adaptation happens over many generations in the hatchery.

    So the thinking is that the hatchery fish (that are not locally adapted to the stream habitat) will outperform the wild fish in the habitats the wild fish are locally adapted for. The wild fish can't maintain a self sustaining run but the hatchery fish will be able to do this?

    Unless the problem is overfishing of the wild fish before they can return to spawn, i don't see how this could ever work. Unless the productivity of the habitat is increasing drastically and their just aren't enough wild fish to take advantage of that improvement.

    My guess is that the "wild" fish are doing poorly because they have been introgressing their genetics with hatchery fish by spawning with hatchery fish, thereby corrupting their local adaptation to the habitat. That, combined with habitat degredation and historic overfishing has caused the decline in wild fish.

    Hatchery fish.......the cause of and solution to many of the problems for wild fish....yeah right!

    Geez, when are these hatchery management assholes going to learn?
     
  6. Salmo_g

    Salmo_g Active Member

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    Wilken,

    As near as I can tell from reading your post, you don't understand the logic path or how this program could work. I posted on how it could earlier in this thread.

    Sg
     
  7. stilly stalker

    stilly stalker Tuna sniffer

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    Releasing all hatchery raised fish as un fed fry increases the overall fitness of the fish that smolt and leave a system. Problem is the #s that leave are drastically reduced because natural selective pressures cull out the fish unfit to survive.
    So the log order increase in egg to fry #s hatchery vs native is then equilized to a # more in keeping with native spawn # vs # of out migrating smolts
     
  8. stilly stalker

    stilly stalker Tuna sniffer

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    And budget minded people hate that, although it's the best way to encourage "natural" reestablishment of runs and promote an overall fitness level to its highest degree while still utilizing a hatchery
     
  9. Chris Johnson

    Chris Johnson Member: Native Fish Society

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  10. freestoneangler

    freestoneangler Not to be confused with Freestone

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    I reviewed both WSC and NFS websites to see if they clearly state that any hatchery based fish management is verboten, under any circumstance...anyone know if that is the case?
     
  11. Chris Bellows

    Chris Bellows Your Preferred WFF Poster

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    i would suggest you contact either organization if you cannot find the information on their websites. seems simpler and more accurate than asking on an internet bulletin board.

    chris
     
  12. freestoneangler

    freestoneangler Not to be confused with Freestone

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    I should think those on the forum that are members of these organizations would know...and why I asked. As a TU member, I know their positions on hatchery fish and their place in fisheries management and it's pretty well discussed on their website.
     
  13. Chris Johnson

    Chris Johnson Member: Native Fish Society

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    In the case of NFS I would say no it is not " verboten, under any circumstance". The link below should make clear NFS's stance on hatcheries.

    http://nativefishsociety.org/wp-con...ore-Sustainable-Hatchery-Mangement-Policy.pdf