Discussion in 'Fly Fishing Forum' started by Vladimir Steblina, Feb 27, 2014.
There's an app for that: http://www.terrainnavigator.com/
USGS maps do not have land ownership.
The problem with maps is they go out of date. Yesterday, I took my tablet along and used the state land base for ownership. I saw a parcel of "Bureau of Reclamation" managed land that had a three bedroom home on it!! So I am not sure about the current status of that parcel.
When I worked for BLM we had 187 cases of occupancy trespass in the Silver Valley of Idaho. People were building 3000 sq.ft homes thinking they were on private land!!! That was a mess and half that required years of work and a special bill in Congress to clean it up.
There are some apps coming out with assessor records in the database like Huffman mentions. However, they face the same issue of changing ownership.
Any comments on the requirements for the posting of no trespassing signs??
Vlad, if one places a sign in locations like this, the law should make them identify that while the property is private, the road is public.
Knowingly trespassing on posted private property is against the law because it violates someone's legitimate property rights.
Preventing the public from accessing their legitimate public property by using intimidation in the form of bogus signs should carry the same penalty as trespassing.
I do think that with all the new technology and Cadastral mapping, there will be fewer conflicts because many people will simply call up a website like this one http://svc.mt.gov/msl/mtcadastral/ and shove it in the face of the faux owner and dare him to call the Sheriff.
I believe Campbell owns that land and a fair amount of other property in the area. I did see where the land around Pitt Lake shows a different owner now.
Here in Montana, there are roads thru private property that are marked with the sign "Traveling through private, Please stay on the road". Some also have gates on them that state to close the gate behind yourself.
But then you get these people from out of state that buy property here and they think they own it all lock stock and barrel. The river, the water, and the stream bed. I stay pretty well clear of places like that.
Regarding the original post, if I saw that sign while driving down the road, I'd keep going, assuming that it meant the land is private, but that the road is public. If I'm going to err, I'd rather err on the side of public right of way unless there are clear indications that the land or road isn't public. As far as I know, Texas is the only state where they shoot you for tresspassing. In Colorado they carry guns and point them at you, but don't actually pull the trigger, unless they're Texans who bought land in Colorado.
I think the penalty for falsely posting public land or public R.O.W. should be at least double the penalty for tresspassing, since it's easy to trespass unintentionally. Can't say that posting public property is unintentional.
I have posted this before. I witnessed two highly regarded NW steelheaders (ok, one was a highly regarded NW steelheader) putting up no trespassing signs on public access areas of the Skagit and Sauk. Once I got over the shock I laugh my ass off.
Case in point the seapost road access on the north fork of the stilly. A Dnr road now gated because the private landowners got permission to close the access. Whos taxes built the bridge across the river & maintained the road all these years ? Why are only a select few now able to access the myrtle lake trailhead and fish their now private lake ? The same thing happened on the road leading to the fly only Ebby lake thus making it a private lake for a few select landowners and blocking off acres of state land for public hunting access.
Ask myself the following questions of course,
Does a sign being ripped away from its mounting make a noise if no one is watching?
What is your personal distance record for sign flying?
Is whatever is on the other side worth it?
I would think this might be the most powerful disincentive in that many people with enough wealth to own these kinds of lands generally want to remain as anonymous as possible.
Here's some background info on the No Trespassing sign in question. It's been private land for years owned by the same family. Access on this road has been there since before I discovered the lakes in 1980. No attempt has been made to restrict access thru the land that I know of. The No Trespassing signs showed up (this is as I remember it) after some cows got shot on this plot of land. What's restricted is off road travel in this plot.
I wrote of a Pitt Lake in an earlier post in this thread. Pitt was owned by the same ranch family that has the No Trespassing sign. Access to Pitt was allowed up to the point some yahoo(s) threw the land owners boat on a campfire and burned it up. It appears the land around Pitt was sold in recent years so I don't know about access.
And I don't blame the ranch family a bit, Bill. As I said earlier, "I have a low tolerance for asshats," and the clowns that desecrated the rancher's property qualify for that classification.
I think the seep lake fishermen suffered because of the actions of the local gangs. I wouldn't think even worm or powerbait users or wet fly fishermen would stoop so low to burn a guys boat.