musings on the gun control issue

Discussion in 'Cast & Blast' started by Alex MacDonald, Jan 31, 2013.

  1. Dave Alberts

    Dave Alberts Active Member

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    As is suggested by others, laws and regulations are for the law abiding... Put the onus on the law breakers and make the penalties such that any mentally competent person will recognize the error of their ways... if they are not mentally competent, sorry.

    For example: Commit a crime with a firearm...minimum 5 years; discharge a firearm during the commission of a crime...minimum 10 years; kill someone during the commission of a crime...mandantory life; kill multiple people or first responder during the commission of a crime...the big needle. No pleas, no deals. There is no excuse nor rational explanation for the action of wackos that are making news today.

    Looking at the number of weapons held by law abiding citizens of the USA (300 million or more), compared to the number of (non suicide) deaths attributed to all firearms (5k or so), it is very clear that law abiding firearm owners rank very high on the responsibility scale.
     
  2. wichaka

    wichaka Active Member

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    Being an LEO, I can say first hand the justice system is broken and depends on the almighty dollar. If the case is too spendy to take to trial, it will be plead out or worse, dismissed. Not disregarding gunlaws, but most all laws are for the honest person.

    Those who commit such atrocities are like terrorists with bombs strapped to themselves. They have nothing to lose. They have no job, family (for the most part), nothing to show for their years on this planet. So what does the little if any type of justice correct in their behavior? Nothing.

    If our laws and punishment were more like those countries that have much less crime problem, we'd all be better off. The next time a thief gets caught, hack off a finger. A burglar, they lose an arm.

    Growing up there was always that deterrent from the parents if we did wrong, even that has been pushed aside.
     
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  3. Upton O

    Upton O Blind hog fisherman

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    In reference to retaining folks with mental health issues: can't do it unless they demonstrate that they are at risk to injure themselves or others. Demonstrate is the operant word here. And then you can only retain them until they are no longer a risk to self or others. This is the issue with President Regan's shooter. He keeps demonstrating that he can't be turned loose.

    The ACLU filed suit many years ago on behalf of patients that were held in mental institutions against their will. Courts ruled that the mentally ill have a right to freedom if they don't harm themselves or others and they can, then, live homeless, sick, tired, wet, cold, hungry and unmedicated along with their mental illness.

    Professionals do have a responsibility to warn if there is reason to believe their client is going to hurt himself or others. This was the case of the Denver shooter, I believe.

    Over the years, I worked with about a half of a dozen men who were fully capable of mass killing and neither laws or conscience have any impact on them and their behavior. If you notice, many/most of the mass killer commit suicide at the end of their rampage. It's the last "screw you, I'm in control" gesture. These are very scary guys.

    Laws are written to guide those who follow them, those who don't, well, they won't.
     
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  4. gofish101

    gofish101 Member

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    As a Proud Canadian and one that doesn't chime in all that often what I saw happen at Newtown sickened me. The debate going on now in your country has me baffled. For example on this thread I see blame on gov., aclu, video games and on and on and maybe I've missed something but the quantity and type of firearms are not an issue. I see that as an integral part of the solution. I don't see any solutions unless ALL options are on the table. The laws in Canada are very different and I don't claim to fully understand the dynamics involved with this complex issue but one thing I do feel strongly about is children should not be slaughtered and change is needed or this will happen again all to soon.
    just my .02
     
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  5. Ed Call

    Ed Call Mumbling Moderator Staff Member

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    I can recall getting my first required mental health screening as a military weapons handler. I was a law enforcement unit leader, showed up, full duty gear reflecting my on duty status. Yup, armed and being screened. Stranger still, the Psychiatrist assigned was a very good friend. I always get a chuckle reflecting on how strange the system worked to mandate a screening , but have no regard for what was on my duty belt or who was tasked with "getting to know me".
     
  6. Upton O

    Upton O Blind hog fisherman

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    Ed, did you notice whether your friend sat at a desk that was between the two of you and he also had a quick exit path/avenue to the office door? And you never know what he had in one of those desk drawers.:)
     
  7. Alex MacDonald

    Alex MacDonald Dr. of Doomology

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    Just yesterday, an Arlington man with a concealed pistol permit fired a shot in the air to get a guy with a knife to stop chasing a woman. The knife wielder was apprehended by other people as soon as he realized the guy with the gun was serious. Our Canadian brother on the preceding page wonders what's wrong with people that they would want to do stupid things like this, and I can't agree more! You want to look at them and ask "what the fuck's wrong with you???".

    Personally, having been forced to use my firearms FIVE TIMES in defense of home & self while living in Sacramento-never fired a shot, mind you, but the 12bore muzzle has a surprisingly calming effect on somebody waving a small pistol-I'm getting to the point that i feel the more of these losers who are shot down in the street like the mad dogs they are, the better. Possibly; just possibly, the message out there is that, well, there must be a reason why you need to act crazy, and we'll take pity on you and find out why. I'm thinking "who gives a shit-just plug the bastard". I suppose you'd say my message is "don't act like that: bad things happen to those who do". Today, I'm thinking maybe that's the message these scum need to hear.

    I also think we're not going to find any solution to this problem, so the "gubmint" will take the easy way out (when DON'T they take it?) and try to ban stuff. Like that'll make a difference.
     
  8. Ed Call

    Ed Call Mumbling Moderator Staff Member

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    Nothing between us but a little space, air and friendship. I'm sure my armed presence in his office did not raise his heart rate at all.
     
  9. SteveA

    SteveA Gnu to the board

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    Why do you say that? When away from home, locking your firearms wouldn't be a self-defense issue, but keeps them from being burgled. When you are at home you don't need to lock them, unless there are kids around. Even then there are a variety of quick access safes available.

    In my mind, keeping firearms out of the hands of those that shouldn't have them is the responsibility of every firearm owner.
     
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  10. Upton O

    Upton O Blind hog fisherman

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    Just poking fun at you, Ed.
     
  11. Roper

    Roper Idiot Savant

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    You missed the part about only law abiding people abide by the law. The nut jobs and criminals don't care and won't care what law is on the books. They already violated the oldest one, "thou shalt not kill". So it won't matter at all what "gun control" measures are passed, they will still be out of control. There is no guarantee of security in life and those who give up their freedom for the promise of security deserve neither one...
     
  12. Alex MacDonald

    Alex MacDonald Dr. of Doomology

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    I wasn't clear here, Steve; my bad. I should have said "when you're not home".
     
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  13. Ed Call

    Ed Call Mumbling Moderator Staff Member

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    I know. Sad thing is that I have not had contact with that friend for some time. I'm going to change that soon.

    Locking up hardware is a good plan. It can be balanced with quick access. Locking up need not be a vault.
     
  14. ribka

    ribka Active Member

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    On the east side have seen more than one instance where a large gun safe was removed from the residence with a chain and a truck.

    When they want them they will get them. The Tweekers and gang bangers are very resourceful and persistent when it comes to stealing firearms.

    Have seen marked police and WDFW vehicles broken into and firearms stolen from them.

    The small quick access safes are a joke and just ripped off the wall by criminals.
     
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  15. Dorylf

    Dorylf Oregon Member

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    Right. Only legit purpose is keeping kids from getting at guns. No way they'd stop a crook.