musings on the gun control issue

Discussion in 'Cast & Blast' started by Alex MacDonald, Jan 31, 2013.

  1. Jim Ficklin

    Jim Ficklin Genuine Montana Fossil

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    I can't add to what Roper, Alex, Ribka, et al have said. MY guns have cost no one else anything; in fact, they have saved myself & others from harm. Fact is, you can't legislate or implement via purchase (read "tax") ethics or morality. Until such time people realize that perpetrators of heinous crimes, no matter what mechanism of destruction they choose to employ and do not conform to ANY laws including God's laws, such atrocities will continue. The root cause is NOT firearms owned & used by honest, responsible, law-abiding citizens. Thus, regulating/punishing honest gun owners does NOTHING to those who would perpetrate acts of violence. Such actions would, however make it much less-risky for said vermin to prey more-widely on their chosen victims. Boot, I sincerely commend you for your passion to heal/improve the health of others. I will also continue to defend my Second Amendment rights. Peace and light . . .
     
  2. freestoneangler

    freestoneangler Not to be confused with Freestone

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    Based on Boot's responses, it seems pretty clear to me that he is not a ardent supporter of the second amendment. Not surprising though is his support for his first amendment right. I don't recall what the final body count, number of serious injuries, and rapes "March on Wall Street" (and many major cities) ended up with, but that certainly cost all of us some significant $$...not to mention costs of picking up all the trash, fecal matter and damage to personal property. Yeah, I was proud to say looky here everyone...this is America (w/o a frigging peep from Barry). Words and speech can have negative consequences and result in cost.

    You know, I think it may be high time to begin re-writing and reigning in on all of our constitutional rights... and, we'll have a serious look at the 2nd amendment right after we get done with the 1st amendment... might as well work them in numerical order... that OK with you Boot?
     
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  3. wadin' boot

    wadin' boot Donny, you're out of your element...

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    Jim- I'm not proposing morality or ethics legislation, I know that goes nowhere. I'm proposing equitable cost sharing. Yeah I get that no one on this board is about to go out and commit a crime. Your kid, your grandkid, your parent, your spouse MAY see that gun as the fastest way out. Why do I say that? 19,000 suicides by gun, 2008. 20,000 in 2010. A little over two out of three gun deaths nationwide are from suicide. You got a gun? you got family around that gun? you got family with depression? You got family who lost their faith? You got a son who just broke up with his girl? You got a black sheep in your family? You got someone with impulse control issues? you got someone with anger issues? With a drinking problem? A family member who makes poor decisions the more demented they get? You got that under your roof, then you got risk. (Show me a family without those issues- I don't pretend to have one)
     
  4. Upton O

    Upton O Blind hog fisherman

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    Then we need to legislate locking up booze, knives, baseball bats, cigarettes...

    It is personal responsibility for parents/family/friends to insure those folks they love who are not mentally intact or are blacksheep or whatever, don't have access to the firearms and to notify the LE about their circumstances. This was NOT done with the individual who killed four people in a coffee shop, a lady downtown Seattle, and then himself. The family knew he was nuts, knew he had firearms and didn't notify the cops. They didn't want him to get into trouble.

    And let's talk about the Sandy Hook killer, what parent in their right mind takes their mentally ill/personality disordered, brain injured kid to a shooting range to teach him how to use an assault rifle and handguns? And when the kid grows to a man (20 years old) and is getting unmanageable, why was he still allowed access to these firearms? Absolutely stupid. You cannot legislate against stupidity.
     
  5. wadin' boot

    wadin' boot Donny, you're out of your element...

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    FreestoneAngler- You bring up an interesting point, which amendment is more important to you, and you got me pegged right, I'd choose first over second amendment any day. Chances are we wouldn't be having a discussion about this without the first amendment. How about you?

    I'd be a liar if I didn't chuckle a little when the Occupy Wall Streeters were cleared out of their camps. I'd also be a liar if I didn't think their bitching had some grains of truth to it.

    I also cheered for the Patriot Gang Motorcycle riders showing up to disrupt the most obnoxious 1st amendmenters- The Westboro Baptist Church- that ever was.

    Upton you sure can legislate against stupidity, it's done all the time. Cigarette taxes do that. Kids attend schools because of legislations against stupidity.

    And yeah you got no argument with me re the Sandy Hook shooter, or families stepping up and taking responsibility, I'm in complete agreement with you.
     
  6. Jim Ficklin

    Jim Ficklin Genuine Montana Fossil

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    Yup. I also "got" the combo to the vault(s).

    Last point: Throw the Second Amendment under the bus. I wonder which one goes under next? First? Third? Does it really matter as the USA crumbles into a socialist state "headed" (note that I refrained from using "led") by "royalty" (who will ever be protected by folks with "guns." Lord, but I detest double-standards.).

    We'll agree to disagree. As always Boot . . . I wish you well. Pax . . . et veritas.
     
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  7. Jim Ficklin

    Jim Ficklin Genuine Montana Fossil

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    In three words: "ALL of them." Finis.
     
  8. Upton O

    Upton O Blind hog fisherman

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    BINGO! Best response of the year! Well done, Jim.
     
  9. Alex MacDonald

    Alex MacDonald Dr. of Doomology

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    I'll show you mine, Boot! We're not jammed into some city; have no problems with the above. We don't get sucked into the orchestrated dramatic bullshit created by Hollywood idiots, and don't feel the need to be "connected" to all the other drama queens in the world. it's a great life! But, thanks to my parents, I learned how to make appropriate decisions. I had both parents, unlike what seems to be the majority of people (young people) today. Everybody likes to badmouth the "Leave it to Beaver" lifestyle, but that lifestyle didn't produce the mass murderers we have running loose today, did it. Nobody made "Hannibal Lecter" movies, nobody rhymed about "ho's in da hood", and nobody took drugs to prevent them from wise-assing in class. Now look at the mess out there! Who knows, maybe it's processed food (or too many twinkies!).
     
  10. Jim Ficklin

    Jim Ficklin Genuine Montana Fossil

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    Good points, ye bonnie Scot. And so it goes . . . what a concept . . . don't address the root of the problem; hell, don't EVEN acknowledge it. Instead prescribe and (in the case of WA & CO), legalize drugs. And folks wonder why we're in trouble . . . kinda like pouring white gas on the fire to put it out . . .
     
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  11. Upton O

    Upton O Blind hog fisherman

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    Haven't you two heard? Everyone else is responsible for the way an individual acts. Funny, we ease (throw) God out of more and more of our society and we put more drugs, greed, porn, etc. in.

    Hmmm.
     
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  12. Jim Ficklin

    Jim Ficklin Genuine Montana Fossil

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    Evidently I haven't heard, Karl . . . for I still pray every day and read the Bible. Dad taught me to be responsible, Dad gave me a love of God & dogs . . . I bought it . . . and I THANK him every day for that legacy. My Kids have been raised in-kind.
     
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  13. wadin' boot

    wadin' boot Donny, you're out of your element...

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    Alex-

    Everyone on this board is hopefully right there with you. Even discussions like this help nail that sense of community home yet more. The fact of the matter still remains, gun deaths, including by suicide are on the rise. Everyone here who keeps there guns locked, and teaches their kids right, and knows wrong from right, and doesn't battle demons that's what we want and expect. Problem is, that's not what's happening. Upton had it right, families/individuals should be stepping up and taking charge. A lot of them don't. Folks are offing themselves. Good, decent folks with guns (those are your guys) get it done in less than a second. More than criminals shooting others. That's a huge cost to all of us. Alls I am saying is monetize the risk, assess competency. Call me naive, but I believe that is the first step in decreasing the burden of death and disability here.

    Even if we cleaned up all the asshats shooting each other, perpetrating firearms based crime, hung em all, gunowning households are disproportionally going to have more problems with firearms based death and disability than those without.

    I'm not saying take guns away, not saying you guys are a bunch of criminals. Not saying take the second amendment away either (as for amendments which are worth dying for- pretty much all of them are solid excepting the 20th, 22nd and 27 ...particularly the 27th, it's totally lame and if you'd die for that then your brand of fundamentalism is truly weird http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_amendments_to_the_United_States_Constitution)

    You'd never ask me to pay your cigar tax. I'd never ask you to pay my Scotch tax. I'd share it with you no problem though. I don't want to pay for your fellow gunowner's (or their families) inability to do what Upton laid out above. I already do, you do too, but I don't want to....

    Anyway, I said my piece. I think we get where we are all coming from. I'd fish with y'all any day and have a blast doing it, I hope that experience would be mutual. Thank you all for a civil discussion.

    (trying to think of some latin but screw it, I got work to do...Pax Out...)
     
  14. Jim Ficklin

    Jim Ficklin Genuine Montana Fossil

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    Ex cogitatione veniet rationis . . . I once believed my vocation to be that of the priesthood . . . then Latin became English, guitars appeared in church, priests quit the priesthood, and I discovered the fairer sex. What can I say? Spiritus quidem promptus caro vero infirma (I needed help with this one . . . thank God I still retain volumes of textbooks, lol.). And I'd share with you also, Boot; and I'd defend your right to express your beliefs . . . you long-ago joined a very specific list of WFF members I'd like to meet someday. To put it in Montana-speak: "You're one to ride the river with . . . "
     
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  15. speyfisher

    speyfisher Active Member

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    You've been watching too much MSNBC