NFR: And now wolves in the Teanaway drainage

Discussion in 'Fly Fishing Forum' started by Lugan, Jul 5, 2011.

  1. ribka

    ribka Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2005
    Messages:
    1,641
    Likes Received:
    329
    Location:
    E WA
    Do not know why a sworn law enforcement officer would have a motive make up stories to kill wolves? But am sure living in the remote and dangerous wilds of Kent Washington you have had many experiences over the with wolves and grizzly bears. And from first hand experience, hiking many miles in remote wolf territories in ID, Wy and MT I have seen dozens of calf moose, elk, deer with just the haunches eaten or the entrails pulled out and left and wolf tracks and scat in the area.

    Maybe aliens are doing this?

    Maybe intro a couple hundred of wolves to King County would be super kewl?
     
  2. Dehlan G

    Dehlan G Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2009
    Messages:
    343
    Likes Received:
    20
    Location:
    UW
    I don't see how your arguments apply to the newly discovered pack.
    The Teanaway pack was not formed via human "re-introduction".

    As far as I know, these "Canadian" gray wolves are the same sub-species as the wolves that used to wander the Cascades.
    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/64/Original_distribution_of_wolf_subspecies-en.png
    IMO you can't compare fish (especially non-native spiny-rays) to wolves due to their natural travel and straying habits, wolves (obviously) don't give a shit about political boundaries.
     
  3. Connor Parrish

    Connor Parrish Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2007
    Messages:
    268
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    Covington, Wa
    Why does this have to be hunters vs. non argument? I am all for hunting, fishing and predators (i must admit im new to hunting but have enjoyed every min of it so far). There is a balance to everything and i am excited for wolves to be back in the cascades. I love watching elk and deer as they brose and graze but to be honest there are tons of them. Bringing wolves back will make hunting more difficult because it will reduce the ungulate populations and with the return of an apex predator to the ecosystem they will also be much more wary than they currently are. Wolves can really do a number on elk and deer populations and wolf populations tend to mirror the populations size of their prey. In a natural system they will kill many deer and elk which will allow wolf populations to increase until it becomes difficult to find prey and then their populations will crash, then the elk and deer populations will increase in lean wolf years until the wolves increase.... on an on it will go. Thats why it is important for management of both elk, deer and wolves if we want to have relatively stable populations. Anti-wolf crowd: if wolves re-establish themselves here then they will remain here. Dont think we will ever see a purposeful eradication of a top predator ever again so you should just push for management. Pro-Wolf Crowd: Congrats they are back! it’s doubtful any hunting of wolves will happen for years but eventually there will be some kind of management so get over it. Bottom line is wolves, deer, elk, bears, possum, squirrels etc. are awesome. Together they make our national forests mysterious, wild and unknown. Wolves will make hunting more difficult; more hiking, patience, work ect. but if you love hunting and are a true outdoorsmen you will still find your opportunities and sometime in the future you will be able to hunt a whole new species: wolves. This is gonna be a hot topic but in the end everyone is going to have to compromise.

    -Connor Parrish
     
  4. cuponoodle breakfast

    cuponoodle breakfast la flama blanca

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2003
    Messages:
    1,843
    Likes Received:
    499
    Location:
    western WA
    Vermin.
    Interesting to read the comments on the linked article. A guy making a quick kill with a bullet is bad. Wolves ripping a deer apart while it's still alive is wonderful. There's a real difference between people who observe nature and people who participate in it.
    F wolves.
     
  5. Lugan

    Lugan Joe Streamer

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2005
    Messages:
    3,258
    Likes Received:
    2,148
    Location:
    Beautiful View, WA
    Some of you guys have a screw loose.
     
  6. Old Man

    Old Man Just an Old Man

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2002
    Messages:
    24,690
    Likes Received:
    3,511
    Location:
    Dillon, Mt
    Yes they do Here in Montana they kill sheep for the fun in it. Just last year they killed over 100 sheep in one night.

    I'm not against Wolves. But not to hunt them is wrong. The packs keep getting bigger and bigger here in Montana]. They also kill cattle.
     
  7. generic

    generic Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2010
    Messages:
    3,580
    Likes Received:
    921
    KSPS did an hour long specail on the introduction of wolves. Regaurdless of were you stand on this issue, they are creating major problems for wildlife, ranchers, recreationalists, and peoples livelyhood.

    Whenever we play "Mother Nature", things don't seem to work out the way we planned. If we are going to introduce an additional predator, we need to issue licences as well don't you think? Maybe not right away, but shortly after seems logical.

    And for those "non-believers, like myself at one time, wolves are creating problems more than anticipated.
     
  8. martyg

    martyg Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2005
    Messages:
    1,168
    Likes Received:
    162
    Location:
    The world at large
    So is the issue that the wolves are "decimating" the elk and deer populations or taking them back to historic levels? It seems to me that if we eliminated an apex predator years ago the population was "artificially" high. It is great is you want the wolves removed so your hunts are more successful and you should say so, but I do not buy that they are decimating anything.

    Also, saying that the RMEF opposes wolf reintroduction doesn't actually lend a lot of credibility to their position of promoting overall health of the eco-system. Ummmm.... Let's look at where their funding comes from. Once again, great to say that it will have a negative impact on the harvest of elk and deer, but I don't buy that the "...populations are way down." Maybe from their all time highs with no pedation. But how about from the 150 year average of the carrying capacity of the environment?
     
  9. ribka

    ribka Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2005
    Messages:
    1,641
    Likes Received:
    329
    Location:
    E WA
    Check out the neat video of the wolves eating the calf moose.

    http://graywolfnews.com/
     
  10. ribka

    ribka Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2005
    Messages:
    1,641
    Likes Received:
    329
    Location:
    E WA
    Like other conservation organizations like Ducks Unlimited, Pheasants forever, Ruffed Grouse , CCA, RMEF does quite a bit to protect and ensure habitat for elk.

    As far as decimating elk, moose and deer spend some time in Idaho Montana and WY to see the damage first hand.
     
  11. Tony the Trout

    Tony the Trout Member

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2007
    Messages:
    369
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Seattle,WA
    Reading this thread has me very concerned. I had no idea that ungulates in Idaho, Montana, and Wyoming were nearing extiction due to wolves. Things must have really changed over there since last time I was out that way. I recall seeing elk, deer, AND moose, but never saw any wolves. I'm sure it won't be long til wolves are the only animals left in those states. Pretty soon you won't even be able to drive from Cle Elum to Thorp without hitting a deer! And they eat their prey alive? What kind of animal doesn't have the decency to put a bullet in it's prey before consumption. I know other predators are FAR more humane with their prey. It's also a known fact that wolves ONLY kill the strong and healthy animals, leaving the sick and weak to reproduce further weakening the overall health of herd animals. Wolves in the Teanaway AND grizzlies in the N. Cascades!? We had better all get torches and pitchforks before we lose our spot on the top of the food chain. I'm just sayin...
     
  12. professori

    professori self-important blowhard!!

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2006
    Messages:
    44
    Likes Received:
    11
    Location:
    Coquitlam BC
    Hey folks, if the wolves are so bad for the rest of the game animals, why is it that we in BC not only have very healthy wolf packs, but great populations of cougar, bear (both black and grizzly) and yet have growing populations of deer (generally becoming a nuisance in the whole southern portion of the province), elk and moose. Having lived with wolves in the neighborhood for most of my life, I am aware of the potential for rare "frenzies" resulting in over-kills, but it is indeed a rare occurrance, not the norm. They have not "decimated" our ungulate populations here, so maybe take a deep breathe and relish in the fact that your ecosystem is showing signs of recovery.
     
  13. Derek Young

    Derek Young 2011 Orvis Endorsed Fly Fishing Guide Of The Year

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2009
    Messages:
    2,898
    Likes Received:
    1,260
    Location:
    Snoqualmie, WA
    Home Page:
    We don't own wildlife, and any attempts to sway the argument by saying "wolves are hurting MY elk hunt" or "now MY hunting grounds won't be as good" is damn arrogant and misplaced. We are stewards of the natural resources that exist both visible to us routinely, and more so for the ones that aren't. We have a responsibility to live within and act accordingly in their natural territories - man is the introduced species in the West, not the other way around; and we're far more efficient at killing wildlife than wolves will ever be.

    I don't advocate breeding wolves or placing artificial protections on them, only to respectfully provide them range. It's man's nature to kill what they fear, so why would we expect wolf populations to grow out of control? Who's afraid of the Big Bad Wolf - look in the mirror if you are.
     
  14. martyg

    martyg Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2005
    Messages:
    1,168
    Likes Received:
    162
    Location:
    The world at large
    Show me empirical data instead of a video of one occurrence. Or are you stooping to the level of PITA by playing a clip full of emotion?
     
  15. martyg

    martyg Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2005
    Messages:
    1,168
    Likes Received:
    162
    Location:
    The world at large
    Well, I guide in the Frank Church. Does that qualify?