Overline my 5wt or step up to a 6wt?

Discussion in 'Saltwater' started by Mike Munro, Mar 4, 2013.

  1. Josh Smestad

    Josh Smestad aka Mtnwkr

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    I fish a Sage Flight 590-4 for Sea Run Cutthroat often. It is a faster stick and I like it with a 40+, sometimes even in a 6wt 40+ if I'm throwing heavier flies. It's easy to pick it up and throw it back out there. Like everyone has said, work on your double haul! The best $30 on fishing I ever spent was for an hour with a casting instructor. It's definitely made the 8 years of fishing since much more enjoyable than the previous.
     
  2. Steve Saville

    Steve Saville Active Member

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    The video has some really good tricks. You do have to keep from dumping your backcast into the water or ground behind. That being said, I have never figured out why anyone would favor overlining a rod as opposed to practice with their rod. Overlining often reduces the castability of the rod. Regardless of the action of a rod, the manufacturers have weighted that rod. It is true that different companies may have a different idea of the correct line weight for a given product but any reputable company like Sage has tested the blanks and given a knowledgeable line weight to that blank. The caster has to learn to cast that rod with the line he has chosen so if you overline, you may not be getting the performance you want from that rod. Try to get out and practice the skills in the video and keep at it. Very few people have learned to cast over night.
     
  3. DKL

    DKL Nude to the board

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    I don't think it is quite that simple. I believe amount of line you have out will determine if you are properly loading the rod. If you are casting a short distance, you would probably be better off increasing the line wt 1, 2, or maybe even 3 wts to properly load the rod. If you are casting all your line, you could benefit from underlining the rod and increasing your distance. This is at least what I was told by a certified caster/instructor a few years back and it seemed to make sense to me.

    DKL
     
  4. Steve Saville

    Steve Saville Active Member

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    You're kidding, right? Why would anyone underline a rod? Lines and rods aren't designed or manufactured like that.
     
  5. Nick Clayton

    Nick Clayton Active Member

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    Because while the folks that designed my Helios 10' 6 weight did a fantastic job, THEY are not the ones fishing it. I am. And if I prefer the feel of under or over lining MY rod for MY fishing, then I don't give two shits what the designers think.

    I know they designed the TFO TICRX 6 weight rod to throw a 6 wt line....and it will certainly do that, but that rod truly starts to sing, IMO, with a heavy 7 weight line.
     
  6. formerguide

    formerguide Active Member

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    I will underline a more moderate action rod on occasion if I like the crisper "feel" I get from a lighter line weight. Good example, I have a Beulah Classic 9' 5wt that is great with a triangle taper 4wt. With a full 5wt on it, it just doesn't feel right, too sluggish, which to me, is different than being slower.

    All rods can cast a variety of line weights both above and below fairly well. A good caster can take an 8wt fast action rod, and line it with a 5wt line, and still cast 80'. Not ideal, and takes a good deal of tip control, and accurate timing, but can certainly be done. Think about the difference in total grain weight on any given line, when casting 25' and casting 75'.

    Was at Puget Sound shop today, playing around with a rod I'm likely getting. One great game was trying to cast as tight a loop as possible, while casting as slowly as possible. It's difficult, but gives you a really good sense of loading and sound, absolute tip stoppage. Interesting stuff.

    $.02

    Dan
     
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  7. DKL

    DKL Nude to the board

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    I'm not kidding (for a once), but I'm not an expert either. I think the manufacturers have to put a wt on the rod, but that is for a subset of potential situations. Used to be you saw a lot more rods labeled 4/5 wt and so on then you do now. A heavy line will cause more load, more flex, slowing down the rod. Less weight will reduce the load and the flex in the rod, speeding it up. Makes sense to me, but like I said, I'm no expert and I certainly cannot cast all my line out.

    DKL
     
  8. Steve Saville

    Steve Saville Active Member

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    But does it sing with a 5 wt. Line?
     
  9. Nick Clayton

    Nick Clayton Active Member

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    The TFO? Nope. It doesn't sing with a 6 weight either, the line the rod is labeled as being designed for.

    I have an older St. Croix 6/7 weight that throws a wf 5 line quite nicely.
     
  10. Mark Mercer

    Mark Mercer Member

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    Powell used to design his graphite rods to cast two and three line weights, but he new good casters would figure out which line would work best for any given situation. Most rods that were designated with two line weights, like a 4/5wt were meant for a 4wt double taper line or a 5wt weight forward line. A double taper line will have more weight at, say 40' out than a weight forward line. Of course the amount of line you have out changes everything.
     
  11. Steve Saville

    Steve Saville Active Member

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    I'm not arguing the point but merely trying to figure out why someone would overline or underline a rod, especially one with the technology of a Sage. I own numerous and have always found the number on the blank to be accurate. I know lots of people overline a fast action rod because they are not able to cast it successfully. They overline to mush out the rod and slow it down. Bad rod choice, in my opinion. But if that's what one wants to do, have at it. I just believe there is disappointment ahead.
     
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  12. Mark Mercer

    Mark Mercer Member

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    I think most people, including myself (but not very often) over line a rod to be able to load the rod with less line out of the tip, especially faster rods, for either shorter casts or distance. Like a Sage XP, IMO just too fast for the intended line wt, you needed to get 40' of line out to start to really load the rod properly, where as if you over lined one wt it would cast great from the get go. I personally don't care for faster rods but, as you know, they do have their advantages for certain things.

    I don't think I've ever underlined a rod, at least that I can remember, but I guess a very slow rod under certain conditions could preform better being underlined, I've just not ran into that.
     
  13. Mike Courtney

    Mike Courtney New Member

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    Back to the idea of good instruction, FFF is holding classes at Green Lake in April. I took the Beginning Fly Casting class a few years ago, and got rid of many bad habits, learned to cast correctly, and gained distance and accuracy. More info here: http://www.wffc.com/instruction.htm
     
  14. David Loy

    David Loy Senior Moment

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    If you enjoy the cast, and lawn cast fairly often, you might try underlining with a DT (5wt on a 6wt rod). No, it won't cast well short, but you can carry 80 feet of line and its a fun way to work on your loops. Not a fishing recommendation.
    Just 2 scents.
     
  15. Randall Clark

    Randall Clark Active Member

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    I wish we could just do away with the whole "wt" designation and go with a grain window on all rods like what some two-handed rod manufacturers do, but that's a topic for an entirely new thread...but like everything, it boils down to individual preferences (or differences, for you science nerds).

    IMO, you'd be better off with a 6wt (with a matched line) for those times when the wind kicks up anyway. whether or not you overline or underline totally has to do with the type of fishing you do. For the close-in game, overlining works great so that it takes less line to load the rod, for long-range work, with the majority of today's fast action rods, if you just use the matched line and once you get some casting basics down, it's relatively easy to really sling some line. It might not be a bad idea to take a casting class or two. I've never had one, and I'm sure that even after doing this for over 20 years I could learn a thing or two. You also will want to learn how to haul, regardless of whether your throwing a fast action stick or a slow action one, once you learn how to haul correctly, you'll be able to really sling some line.

    Back to lining, earlier shooting heads have been mentioned. While I love the Outbound (I even love it on my glass rods) for how quick and easy it is to do one backcast and shoot it out there, that method isn't always the most accurate, whereas if you're throwing the correct line, then you're aerializing much more line and if you're overlining, you've got so much grain weight out there that even with fast action rods, they'll turn to mush and your cast will collapse and the advantage of higher line speed that faster action rods give you (well, it's easier with them anyway) is lost.

    also, with overlining/underlining a rod, if you're trying to overline a fast action rod so it'll load with very little line out, just get yourself a glass rod for that type of fishing...you'll thank me later (there's my shameless glass plug).

    Cheers,
    Randy
     
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