Discussion in 'Fly Fishing Forum' started by Clint F, Mar 2, 2009.
True. Maybe your avatar would be more appropriate on HawaiiFlyfishing.com?
I enjoy a good discussion and a funny one even more but if this thing goes any further with its context do so on the Drakemag. Enough is enough!
There isn't any. My point was that there is no difference between indicator/nymph fishing and jig/float fishing. Both are the same in essence. Neither is fly fishing IMO.
When people describe getting a winter steelhead on the fly as an accomplishment, they are talking about using a swung fly. Other methods are fine, obviously, just not even close to as difficult to achieve.
The reason this is pertinent is that fly fishing is essentially a self imposed handicap. It is fun to cast and everything, but from a catching standpoint it is a handicap and uses a style of fishing developed well over a hundred years ago.
If you are basically catching a jig/float fish on a fly rod, than you are not doing what these old timers and swingers are so addicted to. The reason there are books written about the PNW and its steelhead fly fishing is because of the opportunity to get them on a swung fly, not to simly get a steelhead with whatever method is available. If you simply want to hook a steelhead, that is a more gear oriented approach, which is fine, just not the same.
Dude.....what is with people taking this shit so personal?
Nobody here is telling anybody how to fish. Nobody cares how anybody else fishes. There were a few elitist posts here but mostly this conversation is about what is and isn't fly fishing.
If you don't care about what is and isn't fly fishing that is fine, you just have to realize that fly fishing definately is something else, and a lot of people are deeply in love with it and constantly ponder what is and isn't fly fishing.
Have you never wondered about what makes fly fishing fly fishing?
It is the self imposed choice to use an older simpler style of fishing while sacrificing catch rate. It is not simply about having a fly rod in hand and casting whatever you attach to your line with it.
If you think all this talk about fishing is bullshit than you have no idea how crazy into this some people are like me.
People have been discussing the virtues of fly versus bait for hundreds of years. It is a never ending discussion and some of us love it. The reason I hang out here is to have, hopefully, civil discussion about all these things with others and recieve fresh perspective. We aren't trying to impose our views on others. Life is about the quest of knowledge and understanding of self. I do that through fishing, many of us do that through fly fishing specifically.
Those of you that read all these posts and see it as an argument need to see it as a bunch of guys bullshitting about fishing and philosophy. There aren't any personal attacks going on. If you can't chat with civility amongst people who you disagree with than you are a coward.
Coach, if you liked to swing so much why did you move? And all the posts of your bone fish and your company stuff on a washington site. I run a guide service too, yes I have a link to my site and have chimed in a few times about alaska but I don't post about my stuff in ak all the time. Hawaii to the Northwest is like gear to flyfishing.
Whats really funny is how Washingtons love to spey fish and 10 or more years ago many talked shit about it. Centerpins are hated now but you mark my words that in 5-10 years many on this and other sites will be doing it. Not all the time but when it is necessary.
I love Hawaii, bone fishing, spey fishing steelheading, centerpinning, and gear fishing with clients.
As far as a 20 pound fish held out of water with water running off it, take more photos that way, also I know of a 20 pounder that was a unclip hatchery fish that had a wore dorsile fin and people who saw the picture called in the holder. Fuck Off he released a huge hatchery fish and was in 10 inches of water with the fish just above it.
For me I hate seeing guys holding trout and Steelhead that are about to be released with fleece or wool gloves on. Might as well bonk that fish. And fish with there head dragged out of water half way on the bank with a spey fly in its mouth.
Come on guys lets all get a drink and fish. Yes this is a fly site so note to those that want to show a gear caught fish...... take the hook out and remove the rod from the photo. They won't know the difference.
One a steelheader, always a Washington born and raised steelheader. The avatar may change once in a while as the zip code but my heart has and never will leave the rivers and steelhead of home. And giant bonefish are one hell of a consolation prize Cupper!:beer2: Coach
First off, why the defensive "guilty as hell" posture?
Why did I move? I was a college football coach. I also coached in Arizona and Utah and posted from there too. My home is Washington and always will be. My last season was 2007 when UH went to the Sugar Bowl. I had an opportunity to go to SMU with June but wanted my children to be raised in Hawaii, where my wife is from. Now that you know why, who cares. I swing the fly because I was raised in Washington where many of the rivers swing the fly very well. Probably about the same time you were introduced to Alaska's prolific "Glo Bug Hatch", a bunch of Northwest guys realized the advantages of using spey rods in these same waters to increase their fly drift and to cover water un reacheable due to backcast issues or just the massive size involved. You can call me or any number of members of this site if you want the history rundown. In fact 10 years ago, we were alreay 10 solid years into spey rods in Washington in earnest. This is a fly site. And loving Hawaii centerpins, lead tossing and egg patterns has nothing to do with this post, with pictures of gear caught steelhead or with me. I post on here all the time because I know a bunch of guys on this site and spent a long time steelheading in Washington. Fishing is fishing, and I think it is all great, but I am sure you can find a forum for centrepins, gear fishing, Alaskan "flyfishing" and maybe even Hawaiian Bonefishing. Scoones, IBN and the rest of the leadership here have always kept me honest and if I get too commercial they slap me in the head. Really that's none of your business either. After all you found WASHINGTON FLYFISHING now didn't you? It should be easy for you to find the other sites!!! Tight lines and watch out, your "impenetrable" fish runs up there are starting to dwindle. The only shit talking I've heard for the last 25 years was you folks telling us how shitty our fisheries management was as you yucked it up and raked salmon across the back. It's starting to get quiet up there............
PS It's okay I truly believe that in every gear fisherman is a fly angler screaming to get out. And if you keep working at it, eventually you'll have enough confidence in your teaching and guiding abilities to only fish the fly with clients. Of course you'll have to stop counting fish on the clicker you carry in your pocket and on long tough days have to interact with then on a human level, but it will all come in due time. Much mahalos Coach
obviously fanatical about fishing, obviously not much on the comprehensive reading. :beathead:
to each their own. :thumb:
Lol, Is it wrong for me to say i love flyfishing, but i can't stand flyfishermen.
i love the openness and inclusive nature of so many of the ass's on this board, a board i love by the way.
"I love fly fising but I can't stand fly fisherman"
Now that is good. I really like that one.
I'm sure one of the reasons that I got into fly fishing had something to do with "anger mgt."
I must of have been wrong. Why would anyone that lives on the island be so angry?
I can't believe I read the whole thing.
Maybe I'll get the last word in.
When I grew up in southern Oregon on the Rogue and Applegate rivers nothing made me feel better than drifting a fat nite crawler through a deep hole and hooking and landing a fat wild steelhead, meat on the table.
Well that was 35+ years ago and I will never go back to bait or spin to fish for steelhead, swing fly or nothing.
Now if ya want to post a gear caught fish on this forum, that's your business. But I joined to see fly caught fish and talk about fly fishing.
Peace and love brothers. Dirty Dog out
You can say whatever you want! :thumb:
Best damn post in the entire thread.
PS It's okay I truly believe that in every gear fisherman is a fly angler screaming to get out. And if you keep working at it, eventually you'll have enough confidence in your teaching and guiding abilities to only fish the fly with clients. Of course you'll have to stop counting fish on the clicker you carry in your pocket and on long tough days have to interact with then on a human level, but it will all come in due time. Much mahalos Coach[/QUOTE]
I have to agree. It is like puberty, some reach it faster than others and some never see the day. As some of you know I am 17, I have now reached a point where I will never allow another gear rod in my boats again. I want to thank everyone for their input. Some have pissed me off more but thats the way life goes. If anyone else has more comments I would love to hear them.
It would have been the best post if we were debating whether or not a gear caught steelhead is uglier than a fly caught steelhead but we aren't.
Your buddy calls. He offers you a seat to float some OP rivers. He shows up at your house. He has both fly and gear rods in his boat. Do you turn down the invite because of your feelings on gear rods or go because gear rods are ok, just not on your boat?