Sad post re Kaufmann Streamborn

Discussion in 'Fly Fishing Forum' started by Don Barton, Apr 20, 2011.

  1. Kent Lufkin

    Kent Lufkin Remember when you could remember everything?

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2004
    Messages:
    7,168
    Likes Received:
    1,257
    Location:
    Not sure
    I haven't been harmed and so I don't have a dog in this fight. Thus it doesn't matter how many facts I do or don't have. (I do miss the Bellevue store mightily though and didn't patronize the Seattle location because of the hassle factor in getting there and the lack of parking. Kevin was a stand up guy and several times took orders for me by phone and sent them by mail.)

    However, it's pretty easy to see how Groupon and it's customers HAVE been harmed.

    First, they should have a pretty good basis for a criminal complaint demonstrating fraud and theft. Secondly, Groupon probably has a basis for a civil complaint as well based on breach of contract and failure to perform. (Yes, with Kaufmann's in bankruptcy, any chance of collecting on a damage award is practically nil since secured creditors are first in line for any proceeds from the liquidation of assets.)

    But since 682 of Groupon's customers feel they've been ripped off, it's in the company's best interests to proceed with legal action in order to promote trust and good faith to prospective customers who may be hesitant to patronize Groupon as a result of the Kaufmann's incident.

    If Groupon sat idly by and didn't stand up for their customers who collectively lost $16K or more, how likely would any of those customers be to buy from them again? Therein is the basis for demonstrating harm.

    If you or I were one of those folks, I'd be plenty pissed. After all, $47 could have bought a 1.5 liter bottle of Maker's Mark for Chrissakes!

    K
     
  2. dennysmith

    dennysmith New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2009
    Messages:
    9
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Longview, WA
    a) groupon will be returning every penny to those that did not have an opportunity to take a class

    b) groupon distributes funds in 3 installments over a period of 3 months or so. i am guessing they do this because this probably isnt the first time an outfit has gone out of business after launching one of these deals. i guess you could say they should do a credit check but many of these business are small and/or service oriented that have little to no credit history.
     
  3. Lugan

    Lugan Joe Streamer

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2005
    Messages:
    3,104
    Likes Received:
    1,876
    Location:
    Beautiful View, WA
    So changing the topic a bit: On the east side of Seattle, are we now down to just Creekside and Orvis for local shops?
     
  4. David Loy

    David Loy Senior Moment

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2005
    Messages:
    2,872
    Likes Received:
    547
    Location:
    Wolf Bay
    Yes. If you're spey'd you also have River Run Anglers in Fall City.
    Two great shops but no Dicks.
     
  5. Salmo_g

    Salmo_g Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2004
    Messages:
    8,635
    Likes Received:
    2,981
    Location:
    Your City ,State
    I was thinking a few days ago what made Kaufmann's such a fly fishing icon in the PNW. I'm not positive about how it was in other parts of the country, but it seems like Kaufmann's was the first NW fly shop that could fully outfit an angler. Shops like Patrick's, in the days of Roy Patrick, sold flies and fly tying materials, and a few fly lines, but very little fishing tackle. Warshal's was probably as close to a complete outfitter as there was. But for the most part a person wanting to fly fish got his flies and fly tying materials at one store, rod at another, a Hardy reel maybe from Eddie Bauer, a Wheatley fly box from Frederick & Nelson (yeah, they had a small amount of fishing gear), back to Patrick's or Seattle Sporting Goods for a fly line, backing, and leader, and down to Warshal's for a set of waders.

    Kaufmann's was the first full service shop that I knew of where you could walk in, drop your Visa Gold card on the counter, and get completely outfitted: a 5 wt rod for trout, an 8 for salmon and steelhead, high quality reels and extra spools for both, lines, leaders, flies, boxes, all accessories to go in the vest they sold you, fishing hat, sunglasses, waders, wading staff, and a float tube for still waters. One stop fly-shopping, load it all in the car and be a fully out-fitted fly fisherman. Oh, and sign up for fly tying, fly casting, and fly fishing lessons and classes so you could actually put all that new gear to use, and then book you for exotic and cool fly fishing trips to take all your new gear to. If any other shop in the region came even close to offering all that, I didn't know about it. Now all that is pretty much standard for fly shops throughout the US. Was Kaufmann's the first to offer the complete fly fishing package?

    Sg
     
  6. megalops

    megalops New Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2011
    Messages:
    2
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    san francisco, ca
    Lance Kaufmann sold us a fly-fishing trip early this year (Jan/Feb) to Christmas Island this summer. It was paid in full prior to the bankruptcy announcement and now we are told that our trip is not valid and there will be no refunds. Air Pacific has no record of our trip and neither do any of the lodges in Christmas Island.

    We are out the full cost of the trip (thousands each - not to mention the non-refundable airfares we have already purchased). I have read of others on the boards here who are also out a lot of money either through trips, lessons, or groupon / gift certificates.

    While we will likely never see a cent of our hard earned money I encourage others to tell their stories here and to write to the attorney general. The truth needs to come out about what really went on.
     
  7. miyawaki

    miyawaki Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2002
    Messages:
    3,361
    Likes Received:
    1,149
    Location:
    Kent, Washington, USA.
    I've been thinking off and on about your reply since I first read it and you're so right on. They were the first full-service fly shop. Thanks for pointing that out.

    Leland.
     
  8. Mikey_Mac

    Mikey_Mac Member

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2010
    Messages:
    91
    Likes Received:
    11
    Location:
    Seattle, Wa
    I grew up about 5 miles from the Tigard store. My Grandpa used to take me there to hang out and learn the ropes. It will surely be missed. I actually took tying lessons from Randall when I was 11- and my picture and our class was featured in the paper. Of course- my mom saved it in my baby book. Hope maybe someone can buy it and resurrect it.

    Mike
     
  9. snarlac

    snarlac Member

    Joined:
    May 5, 2006
    Messages:
    277
    Likes Received:
    9
    Location:
    Sacramento, CA
    Help find lance and put him where he belongs.

    let's get our priorities clear here - that groupon scam, which apparently was $47 bux a head, and a mere $32K, I'm guessing is peanuts compared to megalops times who knows how many others. Even if it is a couple dozen, that's big money per head, and overall.

    The key question here is: has anyone seen lance? in order for anybody to do anything, the responsible parties need to be found, and served papers (civil and criminal warrants).

    That trip money wasn't a loan for his business - - - it was stolen. Crime should not pay.
     
  10. Kent Lufkin

    Kent Lufkin Remember when you could remember everything?

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2004
    Messages:
    7,168
    Likes Received:
    1,257
    Location:
    Not sure
    Help find lance and put him where he belongs.

    Nor was it intended to help out with his mortgage, car payments or groceries - which I'm betting it probably did.

    K
     
  11. Davy

    Davy Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2004
    Messages:
    2,031
    Likes Received:
    19
    Location:
    SIlverton, OR
    Very Sad, many of my early teachers were Kaufmann employee's and alot of my ol friends cut their flyfishing teeth at the different stores......R.I.P.
     
  12. alpinetrout

    alpinetrout Banned or Parked

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2004
    Messages:
    3,979
    Likes Received:
    177
    Location:
    Hiding in your closet
    This post is just like when someone who everyone thinks is an asshole finally kicks the bucket, everyone all of a sudden has the fondest memories of the guy. Maybe if they hadn't alienated so many potential customers over the years, they'd still be in business today. Lance always came across as a pretentious prick whenever I crossed paths with him. The only other shop I've ever been completed ignored in was Silver Creek Outfitters and I chose not to spend money any there either. The days of catering to customers who are taking up fly fishing for the same reasons they took up golf are long gone and those who don't adapt will end up the same as Kaufmann's.
     
  13. Denny

    Denny Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2001
    Messages:
    4,241
    Likes Received:
    84
    Location:
    Seattle, WA, USA.
    Hate to see things unfold the way it appears it is happening; for so long Kaufmann's was the standard by which I measured other fly shops. I truly hope it works out for all involved. I remember my first guided trip to Montana, and the guide asking me about Kaufmann's and telling me how cool a shop it was and how lucky we were to have it. I agreed.

    I patronized other local shops, but I knew that if I wanted a certain color of dubbing or marabou, and wanted to ensure it would be quality, that if any local shop would have it, Kaufmann's would have it. I wasn't stung financially by the Kaufmann's bankruptcy and closing, but there is a void for me and I have fond memories of my relationship with the company and their sales people over the years.
     
  14. Eastside

    Eastside Guest

    Nope, you are the prick. Maybe that is why you are ignored at Silver Creek and elsewhere.
     
  15. Woodcanoeguy

    Woodcanoeguy Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2007
    Messages:
    129
    Likes Received:
    27
    Location:
    Ridgefield, WA
    I have been going to kaufmans in portland for over 35 hrs. always liked Lance and most all employees, especially Randy. Never cared much for Lance....he seemed stuck up.