The Earth Is Bleeding...

Discussion in 'Fly Fishing Forum' started by dryflylarry, May 14, 2010.

  1. jut

    jut New Member

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    Long time lurker...first time poster! I have read all the thoughts on this subject, and while I agree that this is a sad situation, cant we all agree that a multi-million dollar mess in not what anybody wanted. Do you think BP, Exxon, or anybody else wanted this mess. Lets take it as it is, a MISTAKE! Here is the question that I have...why are the execs from BP being interrogated in front of congress while the spill is still a problem? Shouldn't we let the dust settle a little bit before the vipers on capital hill dig their claws in? Lets clean it up first. Who cares whose fault it is! Clean it up! If court is necessary, there will be plenty of time later. That is the problem with this country...it doesnt matter what the problem is, we are only concerned with whose fault it is!
     
  2. Ed Call

    Ed Call Mumbling Moderator Staff Member

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    If the execs at BP are not actively in the command center working on the problem, and they were not, why not stop by capitol hill and get grilled? Congress is really into grilling corrupt bankers, doping ball players and environmental destroying oil companies. I don't think for a moment that we are only concerned with who's fault it is, but certainly there are some who think it is their place to find fault.
     
  3. ChrisW

    ChrisW AKA Beadhead

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    Two Thoughts Here.

    1. Shared Guilt by vitue of being a consumer of a product:
    Sorry this goes only so far with me. Yes as consumers of the oil market we probably bear a good portion of the responsibility collectively for the pollution created by petroleum, including smog, carbon monoxide, and climate change induced by carbon emissions. We can look to our government to insist on stricter emissions standards, and we can look to ourselves to conserve where we can and consume less. I drive biodiesel 90% of the time and pay 4.00 a gallon which probably negates any efficiency benefit of 45mpg for my pocket. but when I hop in my car to drive 100 miles each way to tempt a few innocent trout, I feel better about it. I could certainly stay home too, but biodiesel works for me and I get to go fishing besides. But this has NOTHING to do with a corrupt system where drilling safeguards (required in Europe and implemented optionally in the UK- BPs home Country) are ignored with a nod from the government. This disaster was plain and simple a result of cutting corners by a wealthy industry that could have afforded to do things right. The consumers of the product bear ZERO RESPONSIBILITY for this mess. Did anyone blame dog owners when dogs were dying because the dog food industry was selling food tainted with toxic chemicals from China? Should we blame babies the next time a protective car seat is recalled because it doesn't do what is supposed to do?

    A recent post mentioned that we should not play the blame game and that this was an accident, and that BP should somehow be excused somehow because BP didn't want this to happen (paraphrased). That is BULLSHIT! First- BP did not implement all available safeguards and appears to have cut corners in the capping of the well. That would pretty much rule out the "accident" or "equipment failure" excuse. Second- If you accidentally smash into someone's car and kill the driver you are responsible. There is no cap to your liability. If your brakes fail you are still liable unless you can somehow prove the brake manufacturer was negligent. BP killed 11 people, ruined a natural resource based economy in 4 states. and destroyed ONE THIRD of our nation's seafood industry. OOoops.... sorry, it was accident? Can you give us another chance? I'm sorry, I don't even think BP is using this excuse.

    I think it is entirely appropriate to question whether or not we should allow ANY offshore drilling at this point. One mile deep from a floating rig should be out of the question from this point forward. Just because the oil is there and we need it, doesn't mean we should drill it. One of my favorite sayings applies here: "Just because you CAN do something, doesn't mean you SHOULD do it. And just because you SHOULD do something doesn't mean you CAN do it." Food for thought for BP.


    2. Dispersants:
    Here is the side of the equation nobody is talking about: Its not about how toxic a dispersant is (although if one is going to be used that should be a consideration). It is about whether ANY dispersant should be used at all. Dispersants do not get rid of oil, instead they trap it beneath the surface and emulsify it in the water column, making it more available for fish to breathe. Dispersants keep the lighter compounds from evaporating and make surface cleanup impossible - effectively banking the pollution in the environment FOREVER. The decision to use a dispersant essentially should ride on immediate protection for things that people value at the expense of long term environmental pollution. We might "save" a beach or a few birds, but the toxics from the oil will enter our food chain and eventually our food supply when and if the fisheries eventually rebound. If we eat fish we will be eating BP's oil for years to come. Polycyclic Aromatic Hydrocarbons (benzene, etc) work through the food chain and bioaccumulate in predator species, just like mercury and PCBs. This will impact the entire Atlantic Ocean and eventually the Pacific. Top predators like whales, tuna, swordfish, (and people) will eventually receive these toxic compounds through the food they eat even if they never swam through a drop of the oil.

    No one can use dispersants on oil spills without an explicit approval from the Coast Guard. As a smaller scale example, if you spill gas at a fuel dock while fueling your boat and squirt some soap on the sheen, it will "magically disappear". Is it gone? No. And you would have just committed a crime according to the Coast Guard. Absorbents and skimmers are the only way to effectively remove oil or fuel from the water.

    If you want to help make a difference and get some on-the-ground information, here is a great place to start:
    www.saveourgulf.org

    CW
     
  4. Tom Arroll

    Tom Arroll Member

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    The Gulf is one of 2 places in the world where Bluefin Tuna spawn, April though June. Sushi fans say goodbye to Toro. Too bad as I have yet to get one on the fly. BP will kill them before I get my chance. We are all self interested greedy little monkeys.

    T
     
  5. Alex MacDonald

    Alex MacDonald Dr. of Doomology

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    Keep in mind that there is no realistic alternative energy source which is readily available, and dissing one another won't make the issue any better. I see you're all trying to keep it together in this regard, and that's great. That being said, I DO see the current administration making attempts to earn political capital with this issue, precisely as the liberal elements did when Katrina hit. I'm also not saying the conservative elements aren't working to do the same, since politics is, ultimately, an emotional rather than intellectual pursuit. So the facts as I see `em are this: yes, it's a disaster; yes, the administration was slow in it's response; yes, it appears that proceedure to cap wasn't followed, or worse-ignored, and yes, those responsible need to be held thus (and pay). My suggestion to all involved is to first, shut the damned thing off, clean up the mess, and then the parties involved can spend their free time hunting up who's to blame. Anything else is cart-before-the-horse hyperbole.
     
  6. Holly Glen

    Holly Glen Member

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    Being FROM this area I have seen oil on the water all my life in the Gulf area. Nothing this big though.

    Spills happen all the time, those of us from La. have begged for help for decades. We warned we cried and now ....

    God only knows how many will die from this, have lost generations of businesses from this, or how much more we are going to pay at the pump for this.

    What can we do? Nothin. Or we could start walking and riding bikes when we can. Hit them in the pocketbook/wallet the ONLY way they feel OUR pain.

    THIS is too much to take, the La. fisherpersons are SCREWED FOR GENERATIONS if not F O R E V E R

    The Gulf of Mexico area has long been known as CANCER ALLEY and is one of many reasons I went NorthWest.
     
  7. Stewart

    Stewart Skunk Happens

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  8. FE427TP

    FE427TP The Great Sage

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    You do realize that at least 17 oil tankers were sunk in the gulf of Mexico in WW2 ( referenced with http://www.usmm.org/eastgulf.html#anchor474786) by German U-boats releasing 95,000,000 gallons of oil then, how many generations of fishing were lost from that? Really I mean it, how many generations of fishing were lost in the Gulf Of Mexico after 95 million gallons of oil were sank? The obvious answer is None...More underwater oil has leached out of the soil than has been released by spills, the earth naturally takes care of this if we stop messing with it. Being dramatic or sky is falling and saying F O R E V E R, B.S. is just that... B.S.

    The only thing we know for sure about the earth is it has had significantly higher levels of greenhouse gases than we have now, has had significantly higher damage than this, and without our interference; through constant and often catastrophic change it has reached the state that we seem to feel we need to interfere, protect, and prevent from differing from what we want today. We shouldn't be worrying if the earth will survive it, it will, the problem is will mankind survive.
     
  9. Go Fish

    Go Fish Language, its a virus

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    Glad to know that the great sage FE427TP has proclaimed
    that the fishing industry in the gulf will suffer no problems.
    That would make me feel better if I hadn't read any of his other posts.

    Dave
     
  10. FE427TP

    FE427TP The Great Sage

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    And being unable to cite fact or proof to rebut my post he resorts to petty 4th grade level verbal attacks. Here Dave, let me share a link with you since you can't understand what I wrote. http://tinyurl.com/35wjnnv. If you are unwilling to educate yourself on an important subject please refrain from doing other activities like participating in this conversation, community volunteer work, or voting over stuff that affects other than just you. I knew little about oils interaction with nature and how much was naturally present that we might otherwise consider a dangerous level before this happened. I didn't realize that this area has had much larger spills in the past and had been cleaned up by nature to the point that a previous poster said he never saw oil on the sand as a kid. I thought in the past that the chemical dispersants were a good thing. But spending just a little bit of time educating myself on these subject I've been able to refute some of the ill conceived feeling instead of logic based responses by citing fact and actual evidence. Try it sometime :thumb:
     
  11. dryflylarry

    dryflylarry "Chasing Riseforms"

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    FE427TP---

    I don't think mankind will survive with your kind of thinking. Too bad. That's why this earth is so fucked up today. Sorry pal.
     
  12. Ed Call

    Ed Call Mumbling Moderator Staff Member

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    http://www.wdsu.com/news/23652243/detail.html Louisiana Gulf Shellfishing area closed. Obviously unaffected by the BP fiasco.
    Precautionary closure or not, harvesting in these affected seven or eight shellfishing zones is closed. Closed business means no business.

    Last week there was a closure of 19-20% of the Gulf of Mexico's fisheries according to CNN reports. Maybe those reports were fabricated, but if not there is now and has been an impact to fisheries. As for the rest of the story, well, we get more information on that every day. Those daily reports now include an oil leak puking 10,000 to 200,000 barrels of oil per day into the Gulf of Mexico with no clear end in sight. Today I read that the "relief valve well" being drilled by BP will be done sometime in August. I'm sure that no affect to the fisheries will be felt between now and then.
     
  13. Go Fish

    Go Fish Language, its a virus

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    Having read all the links before I posted I was compelled
    to make fun of anyone saying that this is a
    1) minor problem
    2) will not affect fishing
    3) will not affect habitat
    4) will not destroy business
    5) will not ruin lives

    I, along with most people, will just watch with disgust and anger.

    Dave
     
  14. Ed Call

    Ed Call Mumbling Moderator Staff Member

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    Dave, I hope you realize I was being very sarcastic in saying that there will be on affect to the fisheries between now and the projected completion in August of that pressure relief well. I'm sure that each of your points 1-5 above have already happened, or will happen even if by some miracle this leak is stopped today. It pains me to read that BP says "no one is more devastated by this incident than those of us at BP". That is the bullshit line of the century. Tell that to the gulf coast fishermen who hover at or just above the poverty line with a good fishing season. There are so many incredible species of fish in the gulf, I wonder how many will be devastated, not to mention the shorelines that have begun to see this crap come ashore.
     
  15. Go Fish

    Go Fish Language, its a virus

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    Ed, having met you once and read your posts
    I knew where you were being sarcastic (at a 4th grade level, of course).

    Dave