The Native Fish Society under attack

Discussion in 'Fly Fishing Forum' started by GAT, Jun 23, 2013.

  1. Richard Olmstead

    Richard Olmstead BigDog

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    I think what Salmo_g was saying is that most people like the ESA and want to support preservation of native species, NOT that most fishermen support it. Bear in mind that most Americans are not fishermen.
    D
     
  2. Chris Bellows

    Chris Bellows Your Preferred WFF Poster

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    numbers don't matter if the members are apathetic... NFS has nothing to worry about.
     
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  3. generic

    generic Active Member

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    That makes sense... thanks
     
  4. Mel King

    Mel King Member

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    After getting sucked into the ifish for an hour or so I got thinking.What would the Madison or Henry's Fork or many other rivers be like if they planted a few million hatchery brats every year and the C&R ideal was changed to kill all you can.What would those fisheries be like now? Would there be any native fish left after a few years. Would people from all over the world continue to have those rivers on their bucket list? I still consider those rivers as home although I haven't guided there for years. I could feel the hair standing up on my neck. I guided many veteran flyfishers over the years but I also guided hundreds of folks from all over the world on their first trip.The outcome was always the same. JOY and an appreciation for nature and wild fish! I realized I still feel very protective of those places. The general mentallity in those areas has changed since I was there but I wouldn't want to be the one suggesting making those changes. It seems the attitude of washington and oregon "sportsman" has been deteriorating for a long time and the entitlment attitude may be beyond repair. I wasn't here when things were great but in 25 years I've seen a major collapse in NW fisheries! I also got thinking about what Salmo g said about hatchery bonkers and the law not on their side. Maybe the average american is the only hope as fisherman (especially bonkers) will never make the necessary sacrifices even if it benefits them and the fish in the long run.Sorry for the long rant but I feel better now. No, I don't! I feel helpless!
     
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  5. Ray

    Ray Active Member

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    Here's an interesting synopsis of the Nez Perce Tribe's research on Wild/Hatchery interbreeding. I'd love to see more studies of this nature to see if they corroborate the information found at Johnson Creek. If so, then maybe we can utilize that information to resore wild populations of both salmon and steelhead.
    http://www.nptfisheries.org/Portals/0/success-johnson_creek.pdf
     
  6. GAT

    GAT Dumbfounded

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    Mel, exactly. That's what I meant by saying the best fisheries in the world are composed of wild fish and not hatchery jobs.

    I wish we could count on the ESA protecting the wild fish but I don't think that will go on forever or cover all the species and rivers that it should.

    Plus, when you dump in the hatchery fish for the harvest folks, you open the door for those anglers catching wild salmon/steelhead and electing to either go ahead and kill the wild fish and take their chances, or treat the fish so rough because they are mad they can't keep it, the wild fish dies anyway.

    I've overheard harvest guys at work and they resent it when they catch a wild steelhead and must release it. It pisses them off.

    So not only do I believe the hatchery steelhead have a negative impact on the reproduction of wild steelhead, I believe that when you mix the two in the same river the harvest anglers may end up killing the wild steelhead one way or the other.
     
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  7. zen leecher aka bill w

    zen leecher aka bill w born to work, forced to fish

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    One could have both by doing something similar to how BC raises trout, in particular the Pennask Lake trout. BC goes to Pennask Lake to gather eggs, raises them in a hatchery and later releases the trout. As I see it they are basically wild trout. Next year they go back to Pennask, net trout and start out again.
     
  8. Bill Aubrey

    Bill Aubrey Active Member

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    Richard, I wish I could agree with you, but the ESA has been under very serious attack for years and was greatly restricted by political appointees in the Bush Administration. Remember, the ESA covers ALL species which are listed, and that includes bugs, snakes, toads, salamanders, and hey, if you think those don't get much love, how about wolves? Go back and read some of the recent threads on them on this site and you'll start to see that the ESA doesn't necessarily get a lot of love. And, it damn well should!
     
  9. Chris Bellows

    Chris Bellows Your Preferred WFF Poster

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    budget cuts will have far more impact than esa listings, imo. when the general, non-fishing public is asked to decide whether to have cops, teachers, and firefighters or pay for a bloated, ineffective hatchery system and commercial fishing welfare, i think they'll choose services they use and want.
     
  10. GAT

    GAT Dumbfounded

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    Good point. The price we pay for fishing licenses and tags does not really cover all the costs associated with expensive hatchery programs. General tax dollars are required to keep the hatcheries up and running.

    Still, for members of iFish to encourage a boycott of those donating to an organization dedicated to saving wild fish is quite telling for a large segment of the fishing population who must value hatchery fish over wild fish. For me, that is beyond comprehension.
     
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  11. Jason Chadick

    Jason Chadick A Fish, A Fish, A Fishy, Oh...

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    I think my mind touched the void when I read that thread on iFish.

    I've been delaying becoming an NFS member for too long and for no good reason. I've been to a handful of gatherings thanks to the dedicated gentlemen at The Confluence Fly Shop in B'ham, and I've met several very sincere, intelligent, and driven people from NFS. Each time it has been an absolute pleasure. I've got the bumper sticker, now time to get out the checkbook. I hope a few more will do the same.
     
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  12. Jim Darden

    Jim Darden Active Member

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    Let's talk about streams....lakes are a different matter. I think that if an angler was told the cost of a hatchery fish retained by an angler , he would scream..."stop the madness"! These fish aren't raised for anglers, they are raised for the commercial fleet. The commercial guys must get a giggle, watching the HUGE number of anglers cut each other to threads supporting the few commercial people that profit from hatcheries. The politicians that promised to manage the fishery for the highest dollar return for the state are giggling too, we keep electing the idiots managing the fishery for the least dollar return.
     
  13. Richard Olmstead

    Richard Olmstead BigDog

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    It is very true that the subject brings up very strong and antagonistic voices. However, I think surveys over the years have found that the general public supports the ESA pretty strongly. That doesn't deny that it has been a rallying point for a minority of very conservative 'property rights' advocates.

    D
     
  14. GAT

    GAT Dumbfounded

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    I have no problem with the game departments dumping hatchery fish into lakes that are not self sustaining with wild fish. The rivers that once held large populations of wild salmon/steelhead/trout are a different story.
     
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  15. hookedonthefly

    hookedonthefly Active Member

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    Thanks you guys for supporting NFS. I am a member as well as the steward for the Skagit along with kjsteelhead. Chris Johnson got us interested when he took on the stewardship for the Nooksack.

    Since that time, I have gotten to know Bill McMillan fairly well. The following information was provided by Bill.

    For Kendall Creek Hatchery on the Nooksack (data for 2001-2009):

    1) The worst hatchery steelhead year was 2009 with a cost of $2,485 per harvested hatchery steelhead
    2) The best hatchery steelhead year was 2001 with a cost of $89 per harvested hatchery steelhead
    3) The average cost per harvested hatchery steelhead for all nine years was $754

    From Marblemount Hatchery on the Skagit (data for 1999-2010):

    1) The worst hatchery steelhead year was 2003 with a cost of $942 per harvested hatchery steelhead
    2) The best hatchery steelhead year was 2002 with a cost of $148 per harvested hatchery steelhead
    3) The average cost per harvested hatchery steelhead for all 12 years was $488

    Safe Travels,
    Ed