What's the future of

Discussion in 'Fly Fishing Forum' started by Krusty, Nov 1, 2013.

  1. Tim Cottage

    Tim Cottage Formerly tbc1415

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2003
    Messages:
    1,881
    Likes Received:
    418
    Location:
    Outer Duvall
  2. Jerry Daschofsky

    Jerry Daschofsky Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2003
    Messages:
    8,375
    Likes Received:
    1,151
    Location:
    Graham, WA, USA.
    Home Page:
    WW, that's A LOT of places. I grew up fly and gear/bait. I've really noticed the downward trend using bait amongst gear guys. Yes, it's still being used but not as often. All the OP (that still allow bait), the Chehalis system, and misc south sound rivers I've seen less and less bait being used. A lot more hardware and jigs being used.
     
  3. GAT

    GAT Dumbfounded

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2012
    Messages:
    6,809
    Likes Received:
    4,960
    Location:
    Willamette Valley, OR
    As I'm more or less "in the biz" I've watched the sudden popularity of the sport take off like a rocket after "the movie". Shops and manufacturers of flyfishing products rose proportionally. The move wore off.

    As a result, the sport is reverting back to much as it was during the 70s. A few shops here and there and only a few major manufacturers of flyfishing paraphernalia.

    From my standpoint, this would be a good thing. I watched many flyfishing only fisheries become far too crowded. I was talking with Ted Leeson one day about the popularity of flyfishing and he said he'd gladly give up all the articles and books he's written about the sport to regain the solitude. The popularity did provide a short-lived boom for flyfishing writers but it came at a cost.

    However, all angling has taken a hit in Oregon. Over the years, I can't tell you the number of fishing spots I've lost to No Trespassing signs. Fishing access for anglers has gone steadily downward and I don't see that changing in my lifetime.

    As a result, the remaining areas where we can fish are becoming more and more crowded for all anglers, flyfishing and spin alike.

    Will we end up with a situation similar to England where you pay to fish on private waters? Maybe. But I guess that wouldn't be much different than paying to play golf.

    Over the years, I fish less and less so it won't make much difference to me. I'm in the twilight of my flyfishing years. I've lost most of my fishing buddies to age and all the aliments that come with it. We are all winding down.

    I have no idea what the sport will look like in 20 years. It is unlikely the No Trespassing signs will be taken down. Instead, more will most likely show up. I primarily fish stillwaters these days because the lakes are still open and not really ever over-crowded.

    So while the sport of flyfishing will most likely stabilize as to what it was in the 70s, I have no idea if there will be many rivers you can fish. It doesn't bother me that the popularity of the sport has declined but it sure bothers me that the fishing spots are disappearing more and more each year.
     
    dryflylarry likes this.
  4. wadin' boot

    wadin' boot Donny, you're out of your element...

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2006
    Messages:
    2,365
    Likes Received:
    2,277
    Location:
    Wallingford, WA
    Home Page:
    Krusty the trends on fishing, hunting and driving licenses among today's youth are all on the downswing. Not only that but the numbers of young adults willing to relocate for better work prospects is also declining. Kids are living longer with their parents and more often in proportionately more educational debt. I'll go out on a limb here but for multiple reasons, there is a general decline in the willingness of young people to take risks of any sort, let alone standing in a river waving a stick with line on it. Probably some great young board member says Boot that's BS, and for them specifically, it probably is. But let's face it, the kids are interested in other things- their entertainments are cheap, mindless, easily gained, addictive and ubiquitous (and hey I am by no means immune to this). Those same entertainment models do not fit well with fishing, let alone fly fishing.

    Oh and while I'm on the soapbox, if we design an educational system that constantly reinforces the idea that one out of four questions on a multiple choice exam is right, and the other three are wrong, we are enabling generations of incurious dolts. It is amazing to me that this system persists all the way through graduate schools. Any fisherman worth their salt knows that on the right day and the right time dozens of combinations of methods, presentations etc might get fish to strike, and on the next, maybe none of them work. Ie a good fisherman is very comfortable with uncertainty, and tests hypothesis through their entire outing to define the limits of that uncertainty.

    You used to see that curiosity on WFF. Just about every year there'd be some young board member who would post up some ideas about how to make their service project for 12th grade or whatever somehow flyfishing related. I don't think I have seen that thread come up in about four years now. I wonder if the age demographics on this site are shifting to the right...

    I have to say that plenty of times I've been on the water and folks have asked me about flyfishing. I always say the same thing, it's not hard to learn and it's really fun.
     
    airedale, Jered and dryflylarry like this.
  5. freestoneangler

    freestoneangler Not to be confused with Freestone

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2006
    Messages:
    5,640
    Likes Received:
    1,395
    Location:
    Edgewood, WA
    It will most likely be exactly that scenario if America continues the current track towards being Euro-America. Besides, who needs to do the real act of fishing and experiencing the wonderful surroundings fish live when you have Facebook, Twitter and all the "app's" a man could want.
     
  6. PT

    PT Physhicist

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2003
    Messages:
    3,848
    Likes Received:
    1,008
    Location:
    Edmonds, WA
    I'm not seeing fewer people on the water.
     
  7. Krusty

    Krusty Krusty Old Effer

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2011
    Messages:
    1,674
    Likes Received:
    1,579
    Location:
    Spokane, WA
    Of course you don't...you're living in the 'anthill' of Washington....in your neck of the woods you could raise a crowd for a frigging gerbil show. :) Think non-anadromous fish.

    I'm talking the heartlands.
     
  8. PT

    PT Physhicist

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2003
    Messages:
    3,848
    Likes Received:
    1,008
    Location:
    Edmonds, WA
    I don't limit my fishing to the Sky. Been to Chopaka lately? How about the Joe or C'DA? I could list many other places that are 509'er approved and not one of them is seeing a decrease in angler pressure.
     
  9. PT

    PT Physhicist

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2003
    Messages:
    3,848
    Likes Received:
    1,008
    Location:
    Edmonds, WA
    You and your cousin have any kids yet?

    Sorry. But, Spokane isn't the heartland of anything. Start throwing out stupid stereotypes.....
     
    Krusty likes this.
  10. Krusty

    Krusty Krusty Old Effer

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2011
    Messages:
    1,674
    Likes Received:
    1,579
    Location:
    Spokane, WA
    Cranky much? Son, I've been to all of them, and they were once much busier. And my cousin and I sired you (though I prefer your sister)....so we're doin ok!
     
    PT likes this.
  11. PT

    PT Physhicist

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2003
    Messages:
    3,848
    Likes Received:
    1,008
    Location:
    Edmonds, WA
  12. FT

    FT Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2005
    Messages:
    1,286
    Likes Received:
    142
    Location:
    Burlington, WA
    Like Curt, I started fly fishing 55 years ago when I was 5 years old. My dad is a fly fisherman (he still does so at age 86) and I suppose you could say I got the bug early. Back in the late 1950's on into the mid- to late-1970's, there were very few fly shops. And most fly shops were located in destination locations.

    I grew up in Northeast Pennsylvania, just north of where Jim Leisenring and Vincent Marinaro lived and fished and only 25 miles to the Pocono Mts, and 90 miles to the Catskill streams. Despite this and the area having a rather long fly fishing tradition with a fair number of fly fishers living in the area, there were exactly no fly shops closer than a 70 mile drive.We used to buy our stuff either at the local sporting goods stores (they carried everything from golf and tennis to hunting, camping, and fishing gear back then, not athletic equipment only like today), the local hardware store (some of them back then had a section of hunting and fishing gear), or via mail order.

    Heck, back then things we take for granted today like genetic hackle didn't exist unless you were lucky enough to get some birds or eggs from the Dettes, Hebert, of a very few others and raised them yourself. Otherwise, we made due with Indian, Chinese, or other Southeast Asian neck hackle. And if we wanted to get a high end rod, that meant either seeking out a top bamboo rod maker, placing an order with him, paying him either a deposit worth 1/2 the rod or the full-price of the rod and then waiting anywhere from 6 months to 2 years to get the rod, or getting a custom glass rod made by Russ Peak or Powel and waiting a similar amount of time to get the rod.

    Most of us thought in terms of Fenwick, J. Kennedy Fisher, and St. Croix glass rods as higher end rods. And we usually had to mail order them. If we were very, very fortunate, we could get our local sporting goods store to get one of them for us.

    In other words, it was not easy being a fly fisherman regarding being able to buy rods, lines, flies, reels, or fly tying materials. But despite that, there were still a fair number of fly fishers about.

    I started to see a change happening when I was in high school after the old ABC TV program known as THE AMERICAN SPORTSMAN started to show Lee Wulff and Joe Brooks fly fishing at various places in the US and around the world. More folks started to fly fish after seeing these fellows fly fishing on a national TV show. This then resulted in some new books on fly fishing and fly tying being published, which resulted in a bit more interest in fly fishing as well.

    It became easier to get good fly fishing gear as we got into the early 1970's when some of the older fly fishers retired and started up very small fly fishing retail stores, sometimes out of their garages. This made it easier because you could find these folks and buy local, instead of having to mail order and wait up to a couple of weeks to get what you wanted and hope nothing was backordered or out-of-stock.

    As we got into the late 1970's and on into the 1980's, which was prior to the movie, more retail stores opened dedicated to fly fishing. And gear became even more readily available. Again, quite a few of these new retail operations were started and run by folks who had retired from a career and were able to retire after 25 or 30 years, but because they liked to fly fish, they started up small fly shops.

    It was also in around 1968 that Bucky Metz had developed his birds and had enough production to start selling his necks and saddles in a limited fashion. In the 1970's, he was able to increase production a bunch, and we also had Henry Hoffman put his necks and saddles on the market. Thus, we had great hackle available. Also, in the 1970's, there were some other hackle growers entered the market and it became very easy to get hackle of the size and quality you needed to tie the flies you were tying.

    Scientific Anglers began selling their system rods in the late 1960's, and this allowed a person to buy a rod and a matching line that cast without under or overloading the rod. Thus, it became easy to match a fly line to a rod. This had a big impact as well. Also, in the 1970's Jimmy Green began experimenting with graphite at Fenwick for making fly rods with his first commercially available ones out in about 1974 or 1975. And Gary Loomis began making rods under the Lamiglas name with I think it was 6 partners in the late 1960's as well. And then he started up Loomis Composites in the mid-1970's because he wanted to move into graphite and his partners at Lamiglas didn't. He then left Loomis Composite and went completely out on his own with G. Loomis in the early 1980's, which he then sold to Shimano who still owns it. Sage got its start in the 1970's as well after Browning bought Fenwick and moved their production to Korea. Fortunately, Jimmy Green went to work for Sage.

    Fly fishing retailers made enough money to justify hiring folks to work in the shop, which was a change from the old single or at most 2-man operations most commonly found prior to the 1980's. And the retailer owner demographic also changed from mostly folks who had retired early and who were receiving a decent pension, to folks who relied upon the shop to provide the income they needed to stay alive and support their families.

    The guys who had the retirement income coming in only needed to make enough to pay the bills and make a little money to fund a trip to someplace like New Zealand or Argentina to stay in business. The newer ones who relied on the shop for all of their income were in a very different position. They needed (still do) to make enough to support not just the shop, but their family as well. Thus, when profits drop below what they need to support their families, they are forced to look at some other way to make a living. Many got jobs and hired someone to run the shop. However, after a while the guy behind the counter wants to make more than $20,000-$30,000 per year and the owner is put into a bind again. He wants to pay the employees more, but can't afford to do so and keep the doors open. So he ends up closing up shop.

    And in the mid-1980's we had an explosion of fly fishing retailers, which became an avalanche after the movie came out. And has as been mentioned, the 2-hand rod revolution hit in the 1990's.

    Now, we have folks working longer hours, getting fewer vacation days, higher prices for everything (which incomes haven't kept up with), and folks realizing they don't need to buy the latest whiz-bang rod in the fancy new color and the cool name because once you start to acquire high end equipment, you realize there is very little gain by trading in your high end stuff for the newest high end stuff. Therefore, high end rod sales go down some percentage. Same with high end reels. And folks also realize that they don't need to buy a new fly line every year and only buy a new line when the old one wears out or the buy a new rod for a different line weight.

    Thus, we are going back to the modern version of how things used to be 50 years ago. We are able to buy great rod and reels directly from the manufacturer. In fact, the best hardly if ever sell a rod or reel other than directly to the customer. And we have decent, relatively inexpensive rods available at big box retailers like Cabella's (which is very close to the modern day Herter's) and fly shops alike. This is similar to being able to buy Fenwick, St. Croix, and Lamiglas back in the 1950's through the early to mid 1970's. Same with fly reels, which is similar to buying Pflueger or Martin reels back in the day.

    It sure seems to me that we are going back to a former model of buying and selling fly fishing equipment.
     
  13. deansie

    deansie Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2011
    Messages:
    132
    Likes Received:
    24
    Location:
    seattle
    Feel like I may be a good example of this. I'm 32 years old and have 2 kids under the age of 4. Every single one of my buddies who fly fishes also skis, mountain bikes, hunts and competes in things like trail run races or triathlons. While all of those hobbies I enjoy I would consider throwing a fly my passion but there is only so much time and money. While I lived in Seattle, just relocated to dallas, I found it much easier to drive 15 min and be on a sweet mountain bike trail vs 30-90 min of driving to fish. When single I'd get 75-100 days on the river, now I'm lucky to get 10 and my purchasing habits correlate. Now I live 4 blocks from a stocked pond so things may change for time on the water but right now I'm not willing to sacrifice a day a week away from my family to catch a few fish...in due time I'll haul my son w/ me and then it'll be 10x more enjoyable. Just my $0.02.
     
  14. Nick Clayton

    Nick Clayton Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2006
    Messages:
    4,133
    Likes Received:
    3,101
    Of everything I have ever done in this life fishing is my favorite. I don't care what happens next. I don't care if people want to sit on their couch and fish on their Xbox. The rest of the world doesn't bother me. All I know is that I love to fish and my 11 year old son does as well. Ill continue fishing, and passing it down to him, until I take a dirt nap. If all the companies go out of business, ill cut down a tree and make stick poles.

    I just don't worry about stuff like this. I know what I love to do. I will continue to do so, period.
     
    Kyle Smith likes this.
  15. Teenage Entomologist

    Teenage Entomologist Gotta love the pteronarcys.

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2013
    Messages:
    782
    Likes Received:
    421
    Location:
    Ashland, OR
    My dad was never a fly fisherman, barely even fished. I was the one who introduced him into fly fishing. I'm 14, and I plan to go to college and get a business degree, and a PhD in Aquatic Entomology, like freestoneangler said, who needs nature and wild trout. I hope to keep fly-fishing an up and running sport.
    Technology is just a distraction( yet the thought of trout distracts me when I'm in school). image.jpg

    Here's a trout I caught in the Sacramento River near Redding, Ca. Caught the frisky guy last Monday.